Debates of March 20th, 1996

Immigration Red Book

[The Speaker]

Colleagues, some of the adjectives you are using are getting a little close. I appeal to you to think very clearly before using strong adjectives, which usually elicit a strong response from the other side.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I want to reply to the harsh words of the quasi-leader of the third party by saying that the government is very proud of its record of integrity. We have been in government for 27 months and there have been absolutely no serious accusations made by anyone.

I believe both ministers acted properly in this matter. We can stand the criticism of a party which has very little to show. It should put its own house in order first.

Indian Affairs

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Prime Minister. Over the last few years, the federal government has acquired houses in the Oka area, some of which are illegally occupied by aboriginals. The Minister of Indian Affairs refuses to pay the hydro bills of these illegally occupied houses.

How can the Prime Minister let his minister drag his feet concerning the illegal occupation of houses in Oka, particularly in light of the resulting problems for Hydro-Québec, which wants to collect the money owed to it?

[Bernard Patry, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for his question. The allocation of houses to Mohawks in Kanesatake is going very well. Ten houses are still occupied illegally. Necessary action was taken and formal notices were sent to squatters on December 21, 1995.

This is an internal issue which concerns the community itself. The community has a management housing board which must make its own decisions.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the parliamentary secretary says it is an internal problem. In the meantime however, Hydro-Québec is suffering a loss.

I feel that the government purposely refuses to settle the issue. Since it is incapable of taking its responsibilities and settling the issue of illegal occupants in Kanesatake, could the government, as trustee responsible for aboriginal people and as owner of these homes, at least pay those hydro bills until the issue is settled? Hydro-Québec should not have to suffer the consequences of the federal government's carelessness.

[Bernard Patry, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, as I just said, this is an internal problem which concerns the band in Kanesatake. In fact, last year the department sent a letter to Hydro-Québec to advise it that it would stop paying these hydro bills, because this is an internal issue which must be settled by the Mohawks themselves.

Transport

[Joe Comuzzi, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Nipigon, ON]

Mr. Speaker, in the recent budget the government announced that it was going to sell its 13,000 hopper cars. Those are the hopper cars used to transport Canadian grain to ports.

The statement begs three questions of the Minister of Transport. First, will the $400 million the hopper cars are worth be realized? Second, who will be the prospective purchasers? Third, will the terms of sale protect the farmers in Canada, including those in Ontario, and will it protect the ports in Vancouver, Prince Rupert, Thunder Bay and the down river ports of Quebec?

[The Speaker]

Usually members ask one question and sometimes slip in two or up to four. Take your pick, two out of the four.

[David Anderson, Liberal, Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for that comprehensive question.

As the budget announced, the government is going to sell the 13,000 hopper cars which are owned by the department. Next week the department will be inviting proposals from potential financial advisers with knowledge and expertise in both rail financing and the grain industry who will assist in drafting the terms and conditions for the transfer and the terms of sale.

When considering proposals I can assure my hon. colleague that the interests of producers, shippers and the railways will be taken into account. The objective is to make the most efficient use of these cars and to achieve maximum benefit for the Canadian taxpayers.

How much will be achieved in the sale, I cannot at this time state.

Immigration

[Ken Epp, Reform, Elk Island, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the mysterious document that the former immigration minister published at taxpayers' expense and the current immigration minister shredded to avoid discovery was purely partisan, Liberal Party advertising.

I do not need to tell you, Mr. Speaker, that this is a very serious incident. Ministers of the government are not to use public money for party purposes. Doing so is a gross violation of public trust and an abuse of the public purse.

Who ordered the printing of the document entitled "Creating Opportunity" and how is the government to be held accountable?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, when the government speaks about its programs they are of course related to its policies. The government has the programs.

When we say that we have implemented a program and have informed the people about it, a day does not go by without somebody getting up in the House and asking me: "When are you

going you do this or that because it was in the red book?" I always reply that it is in the red book.

When we say that we are on target for the deficit, it was in the red book. When we say that we will meet the 3 per cent target of the red book-

[Dick Harris, Reform, Prince George—Bulkley Valley, BC]

What about the GST?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Saint-Maurice, QC]

Yes, it is partisan when I say that. It is what I said as the leader of the Liberal Party. I have repeated it as Prime Minister of Canada and I have done it as Prime Minister of Canada.

[Ken Epp, Reform, Elk Island, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the red book promised integrity. It promised to get rid of the GST too. The immigration minister asked for this document to be printed because he thought it was government policy.

A big question is why the present minister decided it was inappropriate. The answer is clearly because it is partisan and that is not acceptable.

Will the Prime Minister show some ethics and solve this problem by asking for an apology for the Canadian people? Perhaps the ethics commissioner should be involved here.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I have a program. The government is implementing that program, a program that was established by the Liberal Party.

The promises of the Liberal Party have become the promises of the Liberal government. As a promise of this government it will be kept. When the government says it has kept its promises it says at the same that the Liberal Party has kept its promises.

Varennes Tokamak

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Verchères, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Natural Resources. Following the recent budget, the Minister of Natural Resources advised the board of directors of the Canadian Centre for Magnetic Fusion, which runs the tokamak facility for the development of fusion located in Varennes, that the federal government was cutting off its funding on March 31, 1997.

Does the minister realize, and I hope she does, that by withdrawing funding of $7.2 million from the Varennes tokamak, she will be depriving Quebec of the only major long term energy research project that might benefit the province?

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Minister of Natural Resources]

Mr. Speaker, I am sure the hon. member knows that difficult choices have had to be made within all programs and all initiatives of the government. AECL is no exception. Its budget was reduced by one-third in the budget the Minister of Finance announced two weeks ago.

The priority for AECL in the coming years is to develop an export market for Candu reactors. Difficult choices have to be made. That is not to suggest this science is not good science. It is not to suggest that the people who have done it are not good scientists. It does suggest that in this difficult time choices have to be made, priorities have to be set and priorities have to be delivered on.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Verchères, QC]

Mr. Speaker, speaking of financial choices, I wonder about the minister's financial logic in this case when we know that shutting down activities at the tokamak facility in Varennes would mean the loss of 20 years of development in the field of fusion and $70 million in infrastructures, including $11 million in new equipment that will never be used, and above all, the loss of approximately one hundred jobs in the high tech field in Quebec.

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Minister of Natural Resources]

Mr. Speaker, as I suggested a moment ago, choices have to be made, priorities have to be set. Fusion is not an energy priority for the government.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Verchères, QC]

We've noticed that.

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Edmonton Northwest, AB]

I would like to remind the hon. member that my department has created a new research facility in Varennes that delivers on the government's priorities of renewable energy and energy efficiency.

Byelections

[Bob Mills, Reform, Red Deer, AB]

Mr. Speaker, 12,000 people of Haitian origin live in Papineau-Saint-Michel. Coincidentally the new minister for spending money in Haiti, Pierre Pettigrew, is running in the byelection there.

First, Pierre toured Haiti, then he picked up a $24 million tab for Haitian peacekeeping and spent several million taxpayers' dollars on aid to Haiti. Now he has arranged for the president of Haiti to visit Montreal this weekend.

Is the government prepared to tolerate this blatant influence peddling just to win a single byelection?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, we are very happy that for the first time democracy is working

in Haiti. The president decided to come to Canada. I will be delighted to receive him in Ottawa Saturday.

We are doing our best to restore good government there. The United Nations and the United States have asked Canada to take over the role that the United States had there some months ago. I am very proud that the people of Canada are willing to help the poorest people of the world who live in Haiti.

If the president decides to come this weekend, we are not going to tell him to go back home until after the election. There is no connection at all.

[Elwin Hermanson, Reform, Kindersley—Lloydminster, SK]

Your nose is getting longer.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Saint-Maurice, QC]

There was none.