Mr. Speaker, I have followed this debate with interest.
Some of the quotes the hon. member for Glengarry-Prescott-Russell used were interesting. Maybe I should reply to some of those with some quotes from the Prime Minister: "I have a plan and I have the people". We are still waiting to hear the plan. We are still waiting to see which people will carry this out.
He said we will have a government that will listen to the average Canadians and earn their trust with a balanced, realistic plan with concrete goals, not empty promises. He said that after nine years of broken promises and shattered dreams Canadians deserve a change. We are all still waiting.
He said that for nine years Conservatives have claimed to cut costs while they have been transferring them to the provincial and local levels but the same taxpayers keep paying. They still keep paying because we still keep transferring it to the provinces. We still keep hearing the phony thing that we have planned.
A lot of people have not heard about that plan and certainly do not see it coming from the government. In the past couple of weeks I talked to 400 farmers in Alberta. I have talked to people in Etobicoke. I talked to people in Regina last weekend. They are all waiting for that plan.
They are looking at what the Liberals are saying: "We have everything under control. Feel good, be happy, do not worry about anything". Everything is fine is what the spin doctors are telling the Canadian people but the Canadian people are way ahead of the politicians.
Albertans feel pride because now we are starting to pay down our debt. The pride and the feeling of accomplishment certainly are much greater than anybody feels from the lame duck budget the federal government has put forward now for a third year.
I have made up a little card which I have started handing out to people. People say the Liberals say everything is under control. We hear quotes from some of their henchmen saying everything is under control. We have a deficit that has gone from $42 billion to $30 billion to $21 billion to $17 billion; are we not wonderful? Really what we have done is set the target so low that anybody could hit it.
The hon. member from the Bloc said what the Liberals never talk about is the $600 billion of debt. They never talk about the $50 billion of interest accumulating every year which has to be paid down before we can provide any services.
What members have to look at is how that happened, which is on my card. We started in 1972 with approximately $16 billion and a Liberal government. In 1983 and we we up to $160 billion under a Liberal government.
In 1984 we said here is a guy who said he will not let this grow any more from $160 billion. By 1993 we all know the day we were elected it was $489 billion. When we go back to the people again, it will be $620 billion. It is going straight up, but the Liberals never talk about that.
The people talk about that. The people know what is threatening their programs, what is threatening their health care, what is threatening their jobs, what is threatening their pensions. They are all being threatened by that debt and by those interest payments. That is what is threatening the programs, and the people are smart enough to know that.
The people are asking where is the plan? Where are the targets that will actually achieve something? Do not simply offload problems to the provinces. The provinces are trying to do their job; at least seven will have a balanced budget. Then they will start paying down their debt.
I mentioned the pride when that is finally achieved.
Let us talk to the people. What do the people say? They say lower taxes to give them the incentive to create jobs. Give them some reforms to the systems in place so they can preserve what they all value as Canadians.
The Liberals are stuck on this slash and burn thing. Two or three years ago some speech writer wrote that down for them and they are not clever enough to come up with anything new that describes anything like what the people are saying.
We should probably start right here with ourselves. What are we doing with the number of members of Parliament? We are increasing it. We should be decreasing the number of members of Parliament and setting an example. We are over governed. We do not need all the government we have. We should be totally reforming that place on the other side of this building. That is a disgrace. I am embarrassed about it but nothing comes forward in that regard.
We do not have reform in this Parliament. We have members taking their pensions and justifying it. How can they do that when they are telling people they have a plan, that they will lower spending, that they will set the example for Canadians?
We are increasing the number of members of Parliament. We are taking a watered down pension. We are not doing anything about the GST. We are not doing anything about the debt. We have so little business to do in the House that it is embarrassing. We delayed the opening of Parliament because there is so little to do.
The people of Canada recognize this. They know the sham that is going on. They know the government has no plan. They know the government will not deal with the debt, will not deal with the interest payments, will not deal with threats to our social programs, will not provide jobs. It is just sitting there coasting along and hoping a miracle happens.
I do not believe that miracle will happen. Business knew what to do long ago to get its act together. Government has not even started. In this place nothing has happened. This budget is another disaster with no goals, no limits, no plan as we were promised.
The people know where it is at and the people again, as so often is the case, are way ahead of their leaders. They are ahead of their bureaucrats and they know what has to happen. They are prepared for it and they will take pride in it.
We need a government that has a plan, and yet there is no plan. Yesterday's debate was a perfect example: "We will get rid of the GST, that is a promise. We will kill it, destroy it, bury it". Yesterday in the House every single last Liberal voted to keep the GST. That is the plan and the delivery of the things they went door to door with and promised.
How can one feel any way but unhappy with this place? How can one feel anything but disgust when one hears the sorts of things we keep hearing? There are prepared speeches that people pick up. They do not feel it from the heart. They do not feel it from their people. They have not talked to their people. They are just doing what the spin doctors say will get them elected again. It is a disgrace.
We are talking about the most important thing we all have, our economy. We do not have jobs, we do not have anything and there is no plan here. We have MPs taking their pensions, we have MPs increasing the number of members in this place. We have no plan, and that is sad. It is sad for my grandchildren, for my children, for future generations. We should all have a moment of silence, and the members across should join, because of the lack of a plan. The budget only demonstrates that.