Madam Chairman, first of all I would like to remind the hon. member that we are discussing a bill on borrowing requirements.
The reason I say that is that the number of $6 billion which I mentioned earlier, not this year's borrowing requirement but next year's borrowing requirement, is actually a borrowing requirement number. That is why I thought it pertinent to remind the hon. member that this was a borrowing requirement bill and not a budget. He will have ample opportunity under the budget legislation in committee to discuss all the matters he brought out today.
I would add that universality has been gone for some time with the income testing for the GIS. I think that was in 1988 or earlier.
It is very difficult for me to listen to the Reform Party say there is a need for universality and much more government spending, that a higher level of spending is necessary for social programs, when a little over a year ago that party suggested a slash and burn budget that would have affected these programs. The Reform Party would have taken money from medicare and social programs. The Reform Party would have ruined the social system. I find it very difficult to listen to the comments from the Reform Party.