And my colleague for Lotbinière, I am sorry. It shows how impossible it is for those members to do their job well and to know about the expenditures that have been made in their ridings. Departmental officials tell us that it is impossible to give us an answer, that they do not know how much they are spending and they do not know either how the contracts are awarded.
The public service, and more specifically the Department of Public Works and Government Services, have set up impressive obstacles to confuse people, like members of Parliament, who try to understand the workings of the federal machinery for awarding government contracts in our ridings.
The number of contractors who try to get contracts from the Department of Public Works and Government Services, but do not manage to understand all the ins and outs of the government machinery, is very large. I think every member from every party gets that kind of complaint in his or her constituency office. That explains how a select club of contractors came to exist, people used to the workings of the system, who too often take advantage of the government largesse.
Official opposition amendments providing for simple and transparent rules have all be defeated. Another amendment I will deal with momentarily provided for a contracting out code. It has met with the same fate. As the hon. member for Témiscamingue mentioned a while ago, I think we need easy, clear and transparent rules and standards. Contracting out is a fact, and I will give figures later on, but it could be made more effective.
The Bloc Quebecois amendment simply reflected a tendency to contract out that has been growing over the years in the federal public service. The last available data are for fiscal year 1992-93. According to Treasury Board estimates, services that have been contracted outside the federal government totalled $5.2 billion during that year.
The federal government was certainly not unaware of that trend when it introduced Bill C-7. It should have taken this opportunity to regulate this new procedure.
The President of the Treasury Board has told us year in and year out: "The number of public servants has dropped by 3 per cent, or 5 per cent, and the public service has been shrinking". What he forgot to tell us is that, in the meantime, contract budgets have been rising. What we would like to know, as elected representatives of the people, is how much money is being wasted-yes, wasted-in contracts and how these contracts are awarded.
Why is the number of public servants decreasing year after year while contracting out is on the rise? We have a good idea. It means fewer responsibilities in terms of labour relations and job security, fewer responsibilities for the employers towards their employees.
Should we issue a contracting out code? We did propose one. What did we get for an answer? Nothing. The Bloc Quebecois thought Bill C-7 would establish such a code, or at least rules for the government to properly control the contracting out process and to make it more open.
Everyone from the government and its employees to the general public would have benefited from such a contracting out code. This is the kind of code that ensures better work relations between the government and its public servants, while contracting out is often perceived by the public service and unions as a fearsome enemy they have to fight all the time.
By developing clear contracting out rules, everyone's role would be well defined and everyone would benefit. Also, such a code would have cleared up the whole contracting out process, something the population would have appreciated. We would have solved the problem. It is by setting these kinds of standards rather than by rejecting a whole series of proposals to make positive changes to the awarding process that we will restore the Canadian population's confidence in our abilities and revive their expectations.
By refusing to follow up on the two recommendations from the official opposition regarding the importance of establishing a contracting out code and establishing clear guidelines, the Liberal government is encouraging or giving the appearance of encouraging outmoded practices, for which the public is still and always the first to pay.
I would remind you that in a recent survey, school board officials and municipal, provincial and federal politicians had the trust of about 4 per cent of the population. If we add up the number of school board officials and municipal, provincial and federal politicians, they represent about 4 per cent of the population. This was not a very strong vote of confidence and it is not going to get any better with standards like these. If we then look at the error rate, something like 4 per cent, we did not do very well.
In another vein, I would like to draw the attention of this House to another recommendation of the Bloc Quebecois which never went anywhere, that being the involvement of MPs, regardless of affiliation. This is not a partisan recommendation, to involve them in the letting of Public Works and Government Services contracts in their respective ridings, as is now the case with infrastructure projects.
At the present time, it is literally impossible-let anyone correct me-for an MP to find out about contracts let by the department in
question in his or her riding, as we mentioned earlier. This makes no sense, if we accept the principle that MPs are the people most aware of what is going on in their own ridings.
The problem of the wharf in Témiscamingue was mentioned earlier, as well as another problem in the riding of Berthier-Montcalm. It is now my turn to tell you about a problem in my riding. It concerns the unemployment office.
We learned at one point that, because it did not conform to standards, the Terrebonne unemployment office had to be moved-which is quite commendable-to another location that was larger, better suited, more modern, with new carpeting, new furniture, new lights, a new computer system, etc.
The move was made about six months ago. It cost hundreds of thousands of dollars with the work that was done at the new location and the signing of a ten-year lease. To show you the great consistency between government departments, a month later, we learned that the Terrebonne unemployment office was going to be closed.
How many tens of thousands of dollars, how many hundreds of thousands of dollars, were spent on a ten year lease for beautiful, brand new premises, just to announce one, two or three months later that the office was being closed down? When? Unknown. That makes for an excellent work atmosphere. They tell the workers: "You will be cut, and the office will be shut down. We do not know when, but give us a year or two and it will all be over. We have just set up fancy new offices, but forget about an office-warming party". There was not even an official opening ceremony. No time, it was closed. Or going to be closed. Now, that shows a really coherent policy. How more with it can anyone be?
So that is another example, and we could go back a bit in time for several more. As my colleagues have said, MPs need to be aware of what departmental contracts are being awarded in their ridings, so as to be effective and efficient, and to help the government as well. Whether Liberal, Bloc Québécois, or Reform, who are the ones who should be informed of what is going on in our ridings? The MPs, first and foremost, not the public servants, but the MPs. Not so that we can carry out our own political patronage, but to offer our opinions, as is done everywhere.
Besides, this recommendation of the official opposition was based on the principle that the competence of members of Parliament goes beyond the legislative framework, inasmuch as they have to study matters of state and this, of course, has practical administrative consequences. Nevertheless, even if members of Parliament are consulted, even if they are invited to vote on various kinds of issues, as they will be called to do in a moment, they are still denied any means of verifying if votes, expenditures, income tax and government decisions comply with the recommendations and legislation of the House.
In a few moments we will vote on one bill and tomorrow we will vote on another. Then we will try to see whether our vote is well represented in our riding, and we will be denied this information. If members cannot have access, as the minister wrote, to information on the expenditures by the various departments in their ridings, how can an ordinary individual unfamiliar with the intricacies of government machinery obtain information? It is impossible.
The government's refusal to inform a member about federal government activities in his or her riding is another of its failings. Why not consult, or at least inform a member, as in the infrastructure program, when a contract is awarded in his or her riding? This would be an opportunity to encourage transparency and efficiency in an overloaded system.
Furthermore, members of Parliament could be used as safeguards against the blind waste of public funds. They could, for example, advise a public servant who does not know how things work in Témiscamingue and who, in turn, could advise an architect before any plans were drawn up. A public servant could visit the riding to consult other public servants before setting up premises, drawing up a 10-year lease, etc. if the office is to be closed before its official opening. I think there may be more intelligent standards to be set in the public service if we want to get more than 4 per cent.
In addition to stressing the merit of having members of Parliament involved in the system, the Bloc Quebecois stressed the importance of making public servants accountable since these are the first to know how public funds are used. The Bloc Quebecois recommended the implementation of an instrument allowing-even though I do not like the term-exposure of waste of public funds by civil servants and valuing the practice. What we mean by that is not a "stooling" system revealing situations where someone is spending more than the other. It is simply a system allowing civil servants to report the inadequacy of some program without being penalized.
As I said, the underlying principle is not to frighten employees who would suspect others of checking up on them, but rather to admit that useless spending is made regularly.
Finally, I would conclude this short speech by reminding the House of another recommendation we made and which is largely approved by many MPs of all parties.
The Bloc Quebecois seized the opportunity to firmly condemn the practice of advance payments. What is advance payment? It is a practise which consists in using all the resources available to a
departmental unit. This way, the department makes sure it will have the same budget for the following year.
What does this mean? It is simple. If, in a department, you have $1,500,000 to spend, you must make sure you spend it all. If, towards the end of the last month, you still have $150,000, buy $150,000 worth of dictionaries if you want, but spend it all.
Practices like these account for a rating of 4 per cent in people's confidence in the government. Practices like these have been condemned by the Bloc Quebecois throughout consideration of Bill C-7.
To conclude, these four amendments, these four proposals by the Bloc Quebecois would have allowed every one in this House, not only the Bloc, not only the sovereignist movement, to regain some respect and improve their public image.