House of Commons Hansard #8 of the 35th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was budget.

Topics

The BudgetRoutine Proceedings

1:40 p.m.

Liberal

Réginald Bélair Liberal Cochrane—Superior, ON

Madam Speaker, it is with great interest that I have been listening to the speech that was just given by the member for Prince George-Peace River. I stopped paying attention to the member's speech in his reference to ACOA. For the two years the Reform Party has been here, time after time its members have debased ACOA. He also touched on FedNor which affects my region of northern Ontario. We all know these economic development agencies are there to spur the economy and growth and to create jobs.

Western diversification has also created thousands of jobs. I want the hon. member on behalf of his party to tell us whether he is willing to totally scrap western diversification, the dollars that come along with it, the jobs that have been created and the economic growth that has been created. We noticed that Reformers never talk about it. I want him to come clean and answer a specific question.

The BudgetRoutine Proceedings

1:40 p.m.

Reform

Jay Hill Reform Prince George—Peace River, BC

Madam Speaker, the short answer would be yes we are. We have talked as much about WED as we have about ACOA. Therefore, I dispute what the hon. member is saying. We have talked about all the regional development agencies and we say it has to end.

This government talks about balancing the budget. It wants to move toward a balanced budget. It is always asking for new ways in which to bring down government spending. We have been consistent in condemning these types of ridiculous loans to business.

The BudgetRoutine Proceedings

1:40 p.m.

Liberal

Réginald Bélair Liberal Cochrane—Superior, ON

Say the number of jobs that are going to be lost.

The BudgetRoutine Proceedings

1:40 p.m.

Reform

Jay Hill Reform Prince George—Peace River, BC

Say the number of jobs that are going to be lost. There is absolutely no accountability for these agencies. There never has been and there never will be as long as they continue to be run the way they have.

We have seen a tremendous growth in the amount of dollars spent on these agencies over the last few years. In 1991-92 WED, since that is the particular agency the hon. member is directing his attention to, had a little over $185 million to dole out. In 1995-96, our current year which is coming to an end at the end of March, it had almost $500 million to dole out, yet we have not seen the positive effect of that. There is so much money taken up in the administrative costs of running these programs they actually kill jobs, not create them.

The BudgetRoutine Proceedings

1:45 p.m.

Liberal

Joe McGuire Liberal Egmont, PE

Madam Speaker, the hon. member alluded to Labrador during his speech. Maybe we should send a copy of it to the constituents in Labrador.

I wonder what the Reform Party is telling the people of Labrador about the unemployment insurance system. Is it telling them that the unemployment insurance system should be eliminated? Is it saying that ACOA should be eliminated? Ninety per cent of ACOA supported businesses are successful in that area. Is it telling the people of Labrador that it would like to reduce the Marine Atlantic program? Is it telling them it is in favour of a two-tier medical system?

I would like the hon. member to respond to what the Reform Party is telling the people of Labrador.

The BudgetRoutine Proceedings

1:45 p.m.

Reform

Jay Hill Reform Prince George—Peace River, BC

Madam Speaker, I was recently in Labrador. While I was there I met with representatives of ACOA, representatives of the business development centres, and I talked to them about the problem. The most frustrated people are the people inside the system. They see the huge waste of tax dollars. They are also taxpayers. It has to end.

Perhaps after March 25 we will have a member representing Labrador over here who will be truly representing those people for the first time in a long while.

The BudgetRoutine Proceedings

1:45 p.m.

Reform

Ted White Reform North Vancouver, BC

Madam Speaker, after studying the finance minister's budget I could just about give last year's speech. We are still on the debt and deficit treadmill and nothing much has changed.

The one good piece of news is that last weekend it seems that the Deputy Prime Minister went through some sort of fiscal conversion. I heard her on "Ottawa Inside Out". She said that a dollar invested by the private sector in jobs was a dollar going a lot further than one put into job creation by the government.

Most people in Canada instinctively know this is true. The Reform Party has been saying so at public meetings and in its election brochures since 1989. A dollar left in the hands of an investor, a business person, a consumer or a taxpayer will be much more productive in the economy than that same dollar in the hands of politicians.

The Deputy Prime Minister now realizes that the Liberal $6 billion infrastructure program was a complete waste of money. It did not create a single job, just like we told her. The Prime Minister's solutions of 30 years ago simply do not work.

Business has told the government how to create jobs: stop running deficits and reduce taxes. The resulting flow of money back into the hands of consumers and taxpayers will guarantee generous job creation from increased demand and new investment.

It is not really a hard concept to grasp. However, instead of doing what is required, the Minister of Finance has chosen to keep us on the treadmill of deficit and debt, exceeding $30 billion per year for the deficit and a debt which is now approaching $600 billion, with enormous interest payments of almost $50 billion per year on that debt.

In the time that it takes me to give this short speech the government will have overspent by another million dollars. As long as there is no swift action to really balance the budget and to begin running surpluses, taxes are certain to increase, the debt will continue to grow and interest payments will get larger.

It certainly does not take a rocket scientist to calculate that the cancer of interest payments will within a few short years completely consume our social programs and virtually wipe out every government service which is offered today.

Since the end of 1993 the Liberal government has added almost $90 billion to the national debt and, as a result, almost $10 billion in interest payments. That extra $10 billion per year has to be cut out of government services before we make one step forward in reducing the overall deficit.

Are sensible decisions being made about spending cuts? Absolutely not. There are major areas of waste not properly dealt with in the budget, such as the massive Indian affairs budget which is forecast to expand by 15 per cent over the next three years while services to other Canadians are being reduced by up to 70 per cent.

There is the excessive and unwanted spending on multiculturalism and grants to all manner of special interests and businesses. The government also fails to exhibit any will to control incremental spending waste, the little things that together add up to billions of dollars.

For example, a few days ago I received in the mail a certificate from the minister of heritage. It was beautifully printed, multiple colours with gold ribbon on it. It said: "Canada Day Certificate of Merit: Awarded to the Hon. Ted White in recognition of your contribution to Canada Day 1995". The award was signed by the minister of heritage. When I showed that certificate to a number of people in my riding I had comments like: "What sort of pea-brained, cerebrally challenged idiot would approve the expenditure of tax dollars on a certificate of merit to MPs for doing their job on Canada Day?"

I do not know who the pea-brained idiot was but the minister should have had enough common sense to put a stop to that project before it even started. The fact that she did not shows that she has a flagrant disregard for other people's money. It is certainly easy to spend it, is it not, when they just have to dip into the trough.

As a second example of incremental waste, a travel agent in my riding approached me and showed me the actual computer records of how taxpayers ended up spending much more than was necessary on a fare from Vancouver to Ottawa return.

A conscientious federal employee, knowing that a visit to Ottawa was coming up, approached a travel agent and requested the cheapest fare. The agent showed how a certain combination of fares would result in a total cost of $880. Instead of being pleased, the employee's supervisor instructed the employee to use Rider Travel here in Ottawa which subsequently issued a ticket costing $1,963, almost $1,100 more than that employee would have spent purchasing the ticket in North Vancouver.

Every MP gets letters and calls with examples of that type of waste but absolutely nothing is being done to control it. No wonder the voters have lost respect for the politicians. People see MPs as puffed up porkers slurping at the trough, handing out hard earned taxpayers' dollars to people who will not work, to special interest groups and to businesses that do not need and should not be getting the money.

Meanwhile the Minister of Finance is subjecting Canadians to the torture of a thousand small cuts. That is not the death of a thousand small cuts, but the torture of a thousand small cuts, nothing large enough to get us off the debt and deficit treadmill, but just enough to prevent an immediate fiscal crisis. Irritating little bits of pain for absolutely no gain. It is a course of action that will guarantee years of suffering and no measurable benefits for all of the action taken.

It represents a failure to learn from the experience of countries like New Zealand, provinces like Alberta and states like New Jersey, Massachusetts and Michigan which have shown that the more quickly the budget is balanced the faster the benefits accrue.

The man who was the Prime Minister of New Zealand during the debt crisis, the Hon. David Lange, who is roughly equivalent to an NDP type of prime minister, told me in 1994 that the only regret he had was that he had not moved faster to balance the budget. In hindsight he could see that the benefits would have accrued much more rapidly, shortening the adjustment period and creating jobs more quickly. Today the New Zealand economy is even in better condition that when I spoke about it last year. I used it as an example and I am pleased to update members.

The government sector is about 40 per cent of the size it was in 1984. The abolition of various marketing boards has allowed entrepreneurs to develop new products and markets. Income tax reductions approaching $23 per week for the average worker are being introduced in the next couple of months, and a further tax cut of the same size next year is promised, while the government continues to run large surpluses, paying down its national debt and increasing spending on social programs at the very same time.

Imagine how stimulative it would have been for the Canadian economy if the Minister of Finance had been running surpluses and yesterday had announced a $46 per week tax cut for Canadian workers. This could easily have been attained if the Minister of Finance had adopted Reform's zero in three program the day he came to office in 1993.

We would not today be talking about how to balance the budget. We would be arguing about how to spend the surpluses. With more money in their pockets Canadians would have spent more, increasing domestic demand which in turn would create jobs and increase government revenues.

In New Zealand and in Alberta revenues increased faster than expected after the budget was balanced, allowing spending on social programs to be increased, for example in New Zealand by almost $1 billion in one year.

It is also important to note that the 12 per cent unemployment rate in New Zealand is now down to 5.6 per cent. When did Canada last have a 5.6 per cent unemployment rate? Canada has proven government deficit spending kills jobs and it will continue to kill jobs as long as it stays on this track.

The failure of the Minister of Finance to decrease taxes in yesterday's budget guarantees that even more jobs will be killed. It also guarantees ongoing deficits and a crippling tax load for our children and our grandchildren.

The BudgetRoutine Proceedings

1:55 p.m.

Liberal

Bernie Collins Liberal Souris—Moose Mountain, SK

Madam Speaker, I listened intently to what the hon. member from the third party had to say. Let me raise a whole series of items to which he may wish to respond. The only thing about the zero in three is that in three years we would all have zero. We would all be out on the streets looking for a job.

Concerning infrastructure, I do not know where the member travels but as a municipal person who has travelled throughout his riding, I want to assure him that municipal people throughout Saskatchewan were more than proud of the infrastructure program. They supported it wholeheartedly. I do not know where he travels in his riding but he should get out to my riding in Saskatchewan. He would find that people there are responsive. They said that it was a good program. They would like it to go on.

With regard to his evaluation of MPs, I can assure him that as I travel throughout my riding in Saskatchewan and elsewhere in Canada the attitude and level of respect for MPs will come up depending on what he expects it to come up to. If he wants to downgrade MPs and say that all MPs are not doing their jobs, he should just keep on. However, as an MP who feels he has a responsibility to the public, I will continue maintain that we are there, we are honest-

The BudgetRoutine Proceedings

1:55 p.m.

The Speaker

As members know, I like to start a few seconds early. May I ask the hon. member if he would be prepared to answer this question immediately following the question period?

It being 2 p.m. we will now proceed to Statements by Members.

Steve MacraeStatements By Members

1:55 p.m.

Liberal

John Cannis Liberal Scarborough Centre, ON

Mr. Speaker, I rise today to share some information with the House about Steve MacRae. One might ask "who was Steve MacRae?" He was a dedicated family man, a well liked dependable employee of Knight Computers and an integral part of his parents' and his four siblings' lives.

However, that is not why I bring Mr. MacRae to the attention of the House today. Sadly I bring the House's attention to Mr. MacRae not for what he has done but for something he has not done, which is to continue living. Mr. MacRae has become another statistic in the fight against drunk driving. His life was senselessly ended on January 6, 1996. Because of one person's selfish action numerous lives have been altered.

It is time for us to put in place severe penalties which will deter people from getting behind the wheel if they have been drinking. I strongly urge all members of the House to support the private member's bill of the member for Prince George-Bulkley Valley which would increase the minimum sentences for impaired driving causing death. After all, it is the very least we can do for Steve MacRae now.

Tribute To Dominique BilodeauStatements By Members

1:55 p.m.

Bloc

Maurice Bernier Bloc Mégantic—Compton—Stanstead, QC

Mr. Speaker, on March 2, at the 15th ceremony for the Eastern Townships sports awards, Dominique Bilodeau, a 16-year old athlete from Lac-Mégantic, was awarded the Victor de la Révélation sportive for 1995, after winning three gold medals in track and field, during the Quebec Games which were held in the Eastern Townships last summer.

On behalf of all my colleagues in this House, I want to pay tribute to that young person.

I should also mention the unfailing support of her whole family and the exceptional work of her volunteer coach, André Garon, a teacher from Coleraine and a personal friend of the hon. member for Frontenac.

Remember that name, Dominique Bilodeau. She has a promising future, thanks to her immnese talent, her boundless energy and her unwavering determination. She makes not only her city but her whole community proud.

Bravo, Dominique.

EducationStatements By Members

1:55 p.m.

Reform

Jay Hill Reform Prince George—Peace River, BC

Mr. Speaker, scholarship recipients are some of the brightest stars of our future. Many could not afford post secondary education without scholarships, particularly those from northern communities who must attends schools in the south. Competition for scholarships is fierce and students work hard to get them.

On the one hand, by announcing increased spending for summer employment the government wants us to believe it is supporting students. At the same time, the government continues to tax student scholarships.

Students are facing massive tuition increases and higher educational costs. With high unemployment and a workforce unqualified to fill the thousands of available high tech jobs, a system that discourages students from furthering their education is ridiculous.

It is one thing for the Prime Minister to urge the private sector to create more jobs. If the government really wants to help students it should make scholarships tax free, or at a minimum increase the tax free amount of $500 established in 1972 to something more appropriate for 1996.

Social TransfersStatements By Members

1:55 p.m.

NDP

Len Taylor NDP The Battlefords—Meadow Lake, SK

Mr. Speaker, yesterday the Minister of Finance should have announced in his budget that the health and social transfer floor the provinces were promised would kick in immediately. Instead, we have to wait until the next century and likely a different government.

The premier of Saskatchewan says that by 1997-98 the province will still have $200 million less per year to spend on health, education and social services and approximately $35 million less for each of the two years after that.

This means that as Saskatchewan is crafting its own budget it is looking at a dramatic cut over the next four years to finance its education and health programs.

The finance minister says he is protecting the provinces but the provinces are saying they cannot absorb four more years of cuts.

This is most disappointing, especially given the government's track record of fulfilling its promise to get rid of the GST. Can it really expect us to trust it when it says a future government will honour this promise of a health and social transfer floor in the year 2000?

Windermere HouseStatements By Members

1:55 p.m.

Liberal

Andy Mitchell Liberal Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON

Mr. Speaker, last week in my riding of Parry Sound-Muskoka fire destroyed Windermere House, one of our treasured landmarks. Fortunately very few personal injuries were sustained.

Affectionately known as the Lady of Lake Rosseau, Windermere House dates back to 1869 and was one of the best examples of a traditional old Muskoka resort.

Though fire has now claimed it, Windermere House stood for over a century and was a proud reminder of a bygone era. This majestic resort housed guests from all over the world, and everyone was looking forward to another busy summer season.

There are may people, myself included, who feel devastated by the loss of this memorable landmark. The loss of this historic resort impacts every member of the village of Windermere. Despite this adversity, however, I am confident the community will rally and from the ashes a new future will be born.

Pension ReformStatements By Members

1:55 p.m.

Liberal

Nick Discepola Liberal Vaudreuil, QC

Mr. Speaker, as the Prime Minister said when he made his commitment, the major reform of old age pensions announced yesterday by the Minister of Finance in his budget will not affect those who currently receive old age security benefits.

The new plan called seniors benefit will come in effect only in the year 2001. It will replace the current old age security benefits and the guaranteed income supplement. The seniors benefit will be paid based on the combined income of a couple.

It is expected that the new plan will prove beneficial for nine women out of ten, in that they will get more money than they would have under the current plan.

Once again, our government has shown that it is possible to revamp Canada's social programs while also protecting those who benefit from them.

Child SupportStatements By Members

2:05 p.m.

Liberal

Peter Adams Liberal Peterborough, ON

Mr. Speaker, in his latest budget, the Minister of Finance has agreed to a long standing request made by women all over the country. Starting in May, child support payments will not be included in the income of the custodial parent for tax purposes nor be tax deductible for the payer.

This change to a system left untouched for 50 years will put an end to the unfair distinctions made under the tax system between separated spouses and parents who still live together. It is important to note that the additional tax revenue this change will bring us will be redistributed among children and low income families.

École Nationale D'Aérotechniquein Saint-HubertStatements By Members

2:05 p.m.

Bloc

Pierrette Venne Bloc Saint-Hubert, QC

Mr. Speaker, there are 14 post-secondary aircraft technology training schools in Canada. The largest one was established in 1964 in Quebec. I am talking, of course, about the École nationale d'aérotechnique in Saint-Hubert, which has more than 1,350 students.

In order to promote traineeship outside the country for its students, the school has made alliances with some international networks to which Belgium and France also belong.

Recently, the Saint-Hubert institution signed a co-operation agreement with the Lycée professionnel privé of Blanchet, in Guadeloupe, to develop a training program on aircraft maintenance.

The development and implementation of this program mean that some training equivalency can be arranged between these two institutions. We must support and encourage the efforts made by the École nationale d'aérotechnique so that the qualifications of our graduates are recognized worldwide.

PatronageStatements By Members

2:05 p.m.

Reform

Bill Gilmour Reform Comox—Alberni, BC

Mr. Speaker, last week the Prime Minister informed Canadians that the Liberals had done their part in catering to business. Now let me clarify the Prime Minister's statement because clearly patronage is alive and well in the Liberal Party.

On the Team Canada trade mission to southern Asia last January one in five corporations travelling with the Prime Minister made contributions to the Liberal Party. These corporate sponsors gave over $1.2 million to the Liberal Party of Canada over the past two years.

For example, a company whose CEO is a former Liberal cabinet minister gave over $154,000 to the Liberals. It received an excellent rate of return with a $700 million contract.

Canadians are fed up with old style partisan politics. Paying off their corporate buddies is no way to endear the Liberals to the taxpaying public.

International Women's DayStatements By Members

2:05 p.m.

Liberal

Sheila Finestone Liberal Mount Royal, QC

Mr. Speaker, tomorrow will be International Women's Day. In my capacity as the chair of the task force on the tax treatment of child support payments, I wish to thank the thousands of men and women who voiced their concerns to us about child welfare.

The government has listened to us. I am proud of the policy announced by our government yesterday, which is the result of your efforts. This is an approach which gives absolute priority to children from all types of families, particularly poor families.

Finally, women raising their children on their own will not have to pay income tax on money intended for their children. Finally, they will receive equitable child support payments. Finally, they will have the assurance that payments will be on time. Finally too, their child tax benefit will be doubled.

These measures are the culmination of our government's efforts in the best interests of children, and the long struggle for female equality.

I thank everyone.

International Women's WeekStatements By Members

2:05 p.m.

Liberal

Eleni Bakopanos Liberal Saint-Denis, QC

Mr. Speaker, the men and women of today's Canada must call for equality between the sexes within our complex and diverse society. The federal government will continue to encourage the understanding of diversity in our society, so that the contribution of all Canadian women will be acknowledged and appreciated.

Tomorrow I shall be receiving representatives of various organizations working with women in my riding, to mark International Women's Day.

These women, from a variety of backgrounds, working in a variety of areas of activity, and each making a major contribution to improving the status of women, represent the rich diversity of the riding of Saint-Denis.

These women have united with their different experiences and backgrounds to bring about change and improve the conditions for women in Canadian society.

I salute them for their efforts and invite them to continue to work together with the Liberal government to bring about positive measures for women such as those announced in yesterday's budget.

Violence Against WomenStatements By Members

2:10 p.m.

Liberal

Bernard Patry Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC

Mr. Speaker, as we celebrate International Women's Week, it is important to highlight women's accomplishments. We must also take stock of the progress made to date and look at what still needs to be done regarding violence against women. Canada has been a world leader in openly discussing this issue and demanding changes.

In certain countries, the subject of family violence is seen as a private matter and remains taboo. A national survey on wife abuse conducted by Statistics Canada shows that at least 50 per cent of all Canadian women have been subjected, in their adult life, to a form of violence as defined in the Criminal Code. These past few years, we have stepped up our efforts to resolve this serious problem. For one thing, strict gun control legislation is now in place.

The Criminal Code has been amended to strengthen anti stalking legislation. Our ultimate goal must be to ensure that violence against women will no longer be tolerated in our society. Now that the problem has been exposed, never again-

Violence Against WomenStatements By Members

2:10 p.m.

The Speaker

I am sorry to interrupt the hon. member, but his time is up.

The SenateStatements By Members

2:10 p.m.

Reform

Stephen Harper Reform Calgary West, AB

Mr. Speaker, I was writing a statement about the appointment of Alberta Senator Bud Olson as Alberta's next lieutenant-governor, calling for a Senate election under Alberta's Senatorial Selection Act to fill the vacancy. Before I was finished writing, former Alberta Liberal leader Nick Taylor was appointed to the Senate.

It may take 10 years to balance the budget, 10 years to lower taxes, and 10 years to reform people's pension, but it takes only 10 minutes to reward friends with Senate appointments. Albertans expect the Prime Minister to respect their wishes and permit them to elect their senators.

Canadians from Newfoundland and Labrador to British Columbia remain ashamed of Canada's senior legislative body. They are ashamed the Prime Minister continues the disgraceful, undemocratic appointment of undemocratic Liberals to the undemocratic Senate to pass all too often undemocratic legislation. Fourteen times a seat has become available in the Senate; fourteen times loyal Liberal cronies have been rewarded. Oops, I should say fifteen times. I had better revise that.

Status Of WomenStatements By Members

2:10 p.m.

Liberal

John Godfrey Liberal Don Valley West, ON

Mr. Speaker, on behalf of the Minister for International Co-operation, the Hon. Pierre Pettigrew, I would like to remind the House that today is International Women's Day. The status of women remains a serious concern, particularly in developing countries. This is an enormous challenge, because the human rights of half of the world's population are at stake and, in many cases, the concept of human rights may even include the right to live.

But we have come a long way, and the recent UN conference on women held in Beijing was an important milestone, which followed many others. I am referring to the milestones set through our international development co-operation program. Canada has long been a leader in the advancement of women, as the OECD calls it. We must all support this program of international co-operation, if we want it to continue promoting equality for women around the world.

Unemployment Insurance ReformStatements By Members

2:10 p.m.

Bloc

Yvan Bernier Bloc Gaspé, QC

Mr. Speaker, unemployment insurance reform is of great concern to the people of the Gaspé Peninsula. In this context, it is essential that the information given to them be exact. I deplore the statement made by the hon. member for Bonaventure-Îles-de-la-Madeleine as reported in the March 3 edition of the newspaper SPEC . According to the hon. member, new entrants on the job market in the Gaspé Peninsula could be eligible for benefits after 700 hours of work, whereas Bill C-111 clearly stipulates that a new entrant will have to work 910 hours to become eligible for employment insurance benefits.

Unless it is assumed that our region is already no longer part of Canada, which is not the case, misinforming the public for partisan purposes has no place in a matter that is so crucial to the future of a region. The member should withdraw his statement as soon as possible or the minister should announce changes to the program.