The Secretary of State for Financial Institutions is pointing at me, saying that it is not true. I invite him to ask the human resources development minister because it was through his department that the bankers association, after the banks made profits of $5.1 billion dollars, received $105,000 for training. How does the hon. member respond to that? I invite him to check his facts and he will find out it is true.
What happened in the Constitution? The government said we should treat certain areas differently. It said it believes in distinct society. It is in favour of granting special status to certain people. We see over and over again how it treats people through its multiculturalism policy; again, special treatment. We simply cannot accept that.
With regard to matters of taxation the same principle must apply. People must be treated equally. We cannot have seven provinces supporting three, or six provinces supporting four, whatever it comes down to. It is absolutely ridiculous.
We have no problem with equalization payments. If provinces want to get on board and support other provinces because they got the short end of the stick over a period of time because of mismanagement by the government, let us support them through equalization.
Do we always have to come up with ever new programs for a few provinces to support the many and at the expense of some people to support other people? That is fundamentally wrong. Not to mention we already have a debt of $580 billion. The Liberals may argue they will not tax people more, they will just borrow it. We already have a debt of $580 billion, so I suggest it is not a very good option. We have to get this mess under control.
I will talk for a moment about some of the particulars of this agreement. The government is to kick over a billion dollars. However, it is not said how it will come up with the money for the other provinces if it does propose to treat all provinces equally.
The province of Ontario would require between $2 billion and $3 billion in order to get the same sort of deal as the Atlantic provinces. Where is the money to come from? Will we ask people in Atlantic Canada to come up with that money? What about the money for Saskatchewan and Manitoba? What about the money for British Columbia? I suggest that will not be an issue because all of those provinces have said it is a non-starter, it will not even happen because the federal government will not come up with the money. Besides, they do not like the overall deal.
The premier of Saskatchewan has pointed out that federal government typically invites you in with a carrot. It gives money at the beginning and then it abandons you and leaves you high and dry. If people deny that, I invite them to look at the mess our health care system is in today. The federal government started out by funding it at 50 per cent and it is now down to 22 per cent. There is a long legacy from successive Conservative and Liberal governments where they get us on board with taxpayer money and then leave us high and dry.
It was the finance minister who, when running for the leadership of the Liberal Party, said harmonization means forever. He said that once taxes were harmonized it would be very difficult to get rid of the GST again. What is he saying to people? Is he saying we should give up on the idea of having lower taxes? Should we give up on getting rid of the most hated tax in Canadian history? Is he saying we must permanently weld into place the most hated tax in Canadian history? By signing these agreements, that is exactly what has happened.
There is another way we can lower taxes. In Ontario, Manitoba and Alberta today there are debates about lower taxes.
We can have lower taxes but the only way of doing it is to balance the budget, and the government cannot get that through its thick head. It goes on and on about how we should streamline and change the administration of the GST.
I say get rid of the GST. The best way and the only way to do that is to balance the budget, eliminate it over a period of time, give Canadians the tax break they so richly deserve instead of going back to them over and over again to gouge more money from them.
The hon. member across the way looks perplexed. Gouge? What can that mean? What does he mean by gouge? Since the hon. members across the way came to power they have taken $8.8 billion from Canadians. That is unbelievable. That is $650 per taxpayer.
The hon. members across the way are wondering how could that happen. All those tax measures, all those revenue measures, all those tax increases were hidden. That is precisely what the government is proposing to do with the GST in Atlantic Canada. It is proposing to hid it so it can push through even more tax increases.
Look at all the revenue measures that have gone through the last couple of years, all hidden. All the excise tax increases, all hidden. It is simply trying to come up with creative new ways to tax people more, and if they doubt that I invite people to simply look at the record of the government. It is despicable. It is simply following along the same lines as the Conservatives.
Between 1993 and 1998 revenues for this government will go up $25 billion, the same amount as the deficit will decrease. In other words, it is exacting all of the decrease in the deficit out of the pockets of taxpayers, and that is unbelievable.
To the member across the way, check your figures. It is a fact and the hon. member knows it. He sits on the finance committee and he knows that to be a fact. We do not want different taxes, we want lower taxes, and Canadians deserve lower taxes.
The provinces have lead the way. It is possible with a bit of resolve and a bit of will. If they set their priorities they can balance the budget. Setting priorities is something this government has not done. So far it has managed to preserve spending for special interest. It has preserved spending for its friends in big business. As I pointed out to the hon. member, it does not mind giving $105,000 to the Canadian Bankers Association.
The hon. member knows we had representations from big business across the country, saying not to subsidize businesses anymore. What does the government do? It continues to subsidize businesses year after year while cutting health care by $3.2 billion, by cutting higher education by $1.2 billion. It is going after the wrong things. We could have a balanced budget if it got its priorities straight and did not bury its head in the sand and deny there is a problem. There is a very serious problem.
I am not the only one concerned about this harmonization deal, nor is it only members of my party. I want to talk about what some of the interest groups are saying, those the minister invited to come forward so he could lobby them to come on side. So far they have not come on side.
Catherine Swift, president of the Canadian Federation of Independent Business, said Ontario has to be brought on board to make harmonization worthwhile. The province, with 40 per cent of the national economy, says Ottawa's plan would cost residents $2 billion annually and has refused to co-operate in harmonization. Catherine Swift said: "If Ontario does not go and we end up with a half-hearted harmonization for the next 10 years that is pretty problematic".
The Canadian Chamber of Commerce is a big booster of harmonization, but even it has reservations. Sharon Glover, the group's senior vice-president of government relations, said she is concerned the finance minister will require the GST to be folded into the price tag on goods: "Hidden taxes are too easy to raise and they promote distrust among consumers". Frankly, I think consumers have a right to be a little distrustful of the government.
There have been reports that the GST and the new national sales tax would be included in prices but broken down separately on cash register receipts. Of course that was confirmed by the minister this
morning. The point is even the groups the hon. members from across the way say are supportive of this harmonization agreement are not, and there are the facts to prove it.
Canadians want a country in which MPs are free to come to the House of Commons to represent their constituents. That is basic. It is not being unreasonable. Canadians deserve to be represented by their members of Parliament. What the government did in throwing out the member for York South-Weston and in essentially forcing out the member for Broadview-Greenwood because he was too principled to sit among the rabble across the way was reprehensible. The government has trampled on democracy.
I cannot believe the Prime Minister invoked the name of the British Parliament the other day. Edmund Burke and John Locke would be spinning in their graves if they heard those comments coming from the Prime Minister in trying to defend his heavy handedness.
Canadians across the country want a government which keeps its promises. Canadians want a government which, when it says it will scrap the GST, will do it. They expect the Liberal members of Parliament to actually follow through and do that. They must be sorrily disappointed. They must be very cynical about what has happened across the way.
The finance minister's implied apology at the beginning of his speech today suggests they are feeling the pressure. Perhaps there is a little tweak of conscience across the way. That is good. It is nice to see that finally their conscience is catching up with them.
What Canadians want are not different taxes; they want lower taxes. Canadians from coast to coast have suffered under successive Liberal and Conservative regimes which have raised taxes and failed to deal with the debt problem. Every time they raise money, they immediately spend it. That is absolutely unacceptable. Canadians deserve a tax break. The only way that can happen is if the budget is balanced, but the government refuses to announce a date by which it will balance the budget.
The government is hiding the GST in the new deal. It will continue to tax Canadians to death by stealth, as it has done so often since coming to power. There have been 22 tax measures and revenue measures since it has come to power, taking $8.8 billion out of the economy. That represents $650 per taxpayer. That is ridiculous. No wonder we have not had an improvement in our lifestyle, our disposable income since 1980.
Canadians want to save enough for their future. Canadians want to save enough so they can send their children off to university. They want to have money they can retire on. They want to have money they can start businesses with. However, when the government talks only about changing taxes instead of lowering taxes, none of that can happen.
I urge the government to forget this bogus harmonization idea and fulfill its promise by eliminating the deficit and moving immediately to start the process of eliminating the GST.