There have been lots of filibusters on other occasions, but for the first time since Confederation and the second time in this Parliament, the government has curtailed the proceedings of a committee. So much for that promise. The hon. member for Malpeque was a member of that committee. He says that they will hold more consultations and that they will avoid holding consultations behind closed doors.
I would remind the hon. member for Malpeque that we proposed that consultations on the Unemployment Insurance Act be held in the field, but the Liberal majority refused, preferring to hold them in Ottawa. However, they agreed to hear witnesses, but through video conference, not in the field. We asked the Liberal members if it was possible to hear several groups at a time through video conference. They said: "No, only one group at a time, and only two people". They do not want them to be in a room where people could hear and see, even though in the Gaspé peninsula and in many other areas people do not have access to the TV channel broadcasting committee proceedings.
In spite of that objection, they said no and they curtailed debate. Was that the red book promise, to start holding consultations and then ask the House to first gag the committee, and second to limit debate at report stage and allow only one day of debate on third reading? We have to remember that second reading was skipped because we supposedly had had a pre-study in committee.
I would rather judge people after what they do and not after what they say or even what they write. The red book was prepared three years ago, and it is only this year that things get done.
In previous comments, I spoke about the unemployment rate. I have here a Canadian Press report published by the daily La Presse . Here is what it says: ``The unemployment rate is underestimated, Scotia says. A study by the Bank of Nova Scotia says that the real unemployment rate in Canada is higher that the official monthly figures. Two economists at the bank have estimated that the real unemployment rate in March was not the 9.3 per cent reported by Statistics Canada, but 13 per cent. The study offers a depressing view of an economy unable to generate enough jobs to keep up with the number of people capable of working''.
It goes on to say: "-the number of employed people has grown at only one-third the pace of people old enough to work during the 1990s. Officially, the unemployment rate has dropped from 11.9 per cent in 1992 to 9.3 per cent in March".
The study says that some people are now being left out of statistics. This is a serious study by the Bank of Nova Scotia.
Since we are dealing with figures, let me point out another thing, that is the unemployment insurance fund surplus. When the government took office in 1993, the deficit for that year was of $1.208 billion. The following year, that is the first full year the government was in power, there were cuts-Bill C-17 was enacted and its effects are still being felt-and there was a $2.283 billion surplus.
The preliminary data for 1995 show a $4.313 billion surplus. Because of the measures the government is expected to take, the surplus should reach $4.805 billion and we know it will go up to $5 billion. As the hon. member for Mercier said, in a surplus situation, why was the government in such a hurry to go ahead with this initiative? Also, this year, we are forgoing something like a billion dollar in premiums. Why? What was the hurry?
According to the government's own documents, the repercussions in each of the provinces are as follows: for 1997-98, we have 13 per cent less: $43 million for Newfoundland; for PEI, the province of the hon. member for Malpeque, it is 10 per cent less, $15 million; for Nova Scotia, 8 per cent less; for New Brunswick, $65 million, 11 per cent less; for Quebec, $400 million, 8 per cent less; for Ontario, $300 million, 6 per cent less; for Manitoba, $30 million, 6 per cent less; for Saskatchewan, $20 million, 6 per cent less; for Alberta, $80 million, 6 per cent less; for British Columbia, 9 per cent less.
I would like to remind those who believe that some economic sectors will be winners that all of them will be losers, according to the figures of the Department of Human Resources Development. In agriculture, it is 12 per cent less; in forestry, 14 per cent less; in mines, 7 per cent less; in manufacturing, 9 per cent less; in construction, 9 per cent less; in transports, 8 per cent less; in communications, 3 per cent less; in wholesale trade, 6 per cent less-and I am mentioning the highest only; in the hotel industry, 8 per cent less; in other services, 7 per cent less; for an average of 8 per cent less. All economic sectors will be losers according to the figures of the Department of Human Resources Development.
Amendments were moved. The three would add up to $365 million, of which $345 million will come supposedly from savings made because of a better fight against fraud by the government. It is hoped that $345 million will be recovered. Right now, fraud recovery is estimated at a total of $90 million. How can we recover four times that amount? We would need to catch four times as many cheaters to get that amount. That is what the bill is all about.
I repeat, despite its name, this is not a reform aimed at creating employment opportunities, but a reform aimed at imposing more control on potential unemployed persons. As the hon. member for Malpeque said, the reform should be a reform aimed at eliminating bureaucratic errors. About $300 million were lost because of errors and three times out of four these errors are made by the Department of Human Resources Development.
I would like to mention the administrative errors contained in the numbers given by the bureaucrats. The last evening of our work in committee, I myself spotted two errors in a computer produced table distributed by the government. One of them concerned Quebec and, listen to this, it was an error of $4 million made by the computers.
It was the same thing for B.C. I cannot give you the total picture, but the real impact for Quebec was a loss of about 6 per cent of the total-and a loss is a loss. With the three Liberal amendments, there are possible savings of $365 million. I do not say that it would be the best solution, because the $2 billion in cuts will remain, but at least, it is not as bad.