Mr. Speaker, it is with great pleasure that I join my colleagues today in speaking to Bill C-19, an act to implement the agreement on internal trade in Canada.
I am proud to participate in this debate, as this is a very important legislation, however arid and technical it may be. The bill affirms the principle, with which we agree, that internal trade should be liberalized as much as possible and that any kind of tariff barrier that exists should be removed as much as possible.
I must say that it was about time that Canada, as a political and economical entity, and that Canadians come to an agreement because it was becoming increasing obvious that Canada was getting along better with its neighbours than with its own provinces. Canada successfully negotiated a free trade agreement with the U.S. and, later, NAFTA, while it was having a great deal of trouble coming to an agreement on interprovincial tariff barriers.
We agree with the principle of the bill. Especially since, as you probably recall, there was a huge irritant in that clause 9 used to give the federal government enormous powers that it had more or less assumed. Without consulting anybody, at a meeting held in western Canada, the federal government announced its intention to make all legitimate efforts to persuade a province whose attitude is deemed less co-operative than that of another.
At the time, under clause 9, the government had given itself sweeping, excessive, disproportionate powers. As you probably recall, this prompted the then premier of Quebec, Jacques Parizeau, to describe this clause in particular and the bill as a whole, since it all hinged on clause 9, as "trade war measures taken by Canada against Quebec's government in particular".
Mr. Paillé, the then Quebec Minister of Industry, Commerce and Technology, made the appropriate representations to his federal counterpart, asking him to exercise moderation and see to it that clause 9 and federal powers in this area be cut down to reasonable proportions instead of being so ridiculously excessive. If I am not mistaken, that is how the Quebec minister described the attitude of the federal government, which was taking advantage of the situation to increase its powers.
As for us, we condemned as strongly as possible, both in the industry committee-of which I was then vice-chairman-and here in this House, the federal government's tendency to give itself inordinate powers. I do not want to brag but we succeeded at the time in talking some sense into the government and making it understand that the extent and ambiguous nature of the powers it was giving itself did not meet a real need and were out of line with what Canadians then expected in this matter.
We now have a clause 9 in which federal powers are more restricted, more reasonable, and in which all the parties, including the Quebec government, agree that an arbitrator is indeed needed in this area, thus giving the federal government some legitimate, consistent powers.
Even if we agree with the bill in its present form, there are still two provisions that we are deploring but which have been maintained despite the representations made and the amendments put forward by the official opposition.
The first of the two provisions we deplore is, again, clause 9, which provides that "pursuant to Article 1710 of the Agreement, the Governor in Council-that is to say, the cabinet-may, by order" and so on. This means that, in any tense situation or dispute between any two parties in Canada, the cabinet gives itself the right to settle the matter by issuing a direct order without going through the House. On the sly.
We would have liked-we even moved an amendment to this end, but it was unfortunately rejected by the government-the representatives of the 10 provinces and 2 territories in Canada that signed the agreement who sit in the House of Commons to be able to participate in the debate, either on behalf of the defendant or on behalf of the plaintiff, to publicly present the arguments of each party in the public interest and for historical purposes so that, at the end of the day, there is a debate before the federal government can come down with a sledgehammer or with sanctions, as it is now entitled to do.
We would have liked a debate to be held so that the elected representatives of the two parties involved-let us imagine, for example, that there is a dispute between Alberta and British Columbia-who sit in the House of Commons at the same time can participate in the debate and perhaps have some influence or ultimately put forward proposals. The dispute could then be settled in the best way possible and not by order, not on the sly, not in an arbitrary manner, as suggested by the current formula favoured by the government in this very important matter.
It must be understood that we are talking about a recourse against an injuring party. Traditionally, there has been a manpower mobility problem here, at the Quebec-Ottawa border, since workers from one side of the river could not work on the other side, and vice versa. These are sensitive issues.
The more discussions there are, the greater the chances of finding the most appropriate solution. Resorting to orders in council and acting on the sly or arbitrarily will certainly not improve the chances of finding the fairest possible solution.
We generally support the bill, but we are also disappointed with clause 19, the wording of which is very expeditious. It reads as follows:
- Part III of the Motor Vehicle Transport Act, 1987 is repealed.
This may be a short sentence, but it has enormous consequences for a group of Quebec workers who made a lot of representations. These workers appeared before the industry committee to give their point of view. They also contacted the offices of the transport and industry ministers. Unfortunately, their efforts were in vain. I am referring to Quebec's bulk hauling truckers.
After a long struggle, they managed to get a law finally passed in Quebec to regulate bulk transport. The province did a good job and things have been going smoothly in that industry for many years now. This is quite an improvement given the heated confrontations that took place before, including in the streets of Quebec City at one time, to develop public awareness regarding the issue of bulk transportation.
With the repeal of Part III of the Motor Vehicle Transport Act of 1987, there will now be two jurisdictions in the same sector of economic activity. Currently, bulk transport permits are issued by the Government of Quebec and conditions are quite strict. This is why things are now quiet in that sector.
Part III of the Motor Vehicle Transport Act, 1987 being repealed, Quebec will now have another type of permit coming out of the woodwork. In other words, some people will have a federal bulk hauling permit without being subject to Quebec regulations.
What is worrying some people, and justifiably so, is that there will be two types of shipper, with two types of permit, federal or Quebec. For your information, the Quebec permit is subject to very stringent regulations, and it has been eminently satisfactory to everyone since its inauguration several years ago. It suits truckers because it has restored tranquility, whereas from now on there can be people who are federally licensed and not subject to Quebec regulations. There is a huge risk of anarchy, because truckers subject to the Quebec regulations will be competing with others who are not.
We have, however-the trucking companies even more than ourselves-tried to make the government, the industry and transport ministers, see reason on this. The Minister of Health was not involved in this debate unfortunately. He would no doubt have understood the situation, judging by the openmindedness we have seen in him.
Unfortunately, we had to settle for dealing with the industry minister, the same one as today, as well as with the former Minister of Transport. These negotiations were fruitless and the bulk haulers will now have to live with this legislation, which-and we are only too pleased to repeat this again and again-will jeopardize the peace there has been until now in this sector.
There is a risk of anarchy, because there will be two types of operator: the ones subject to the unstructured and unregulated federal law and the ones with a permit from the Government of Quebec and covered by Quebec regulations, which to date have proven their worth. It most unfortunate once again that the government was not more open to representations from the official opposition on this.
We support this bill, because we sovereignists feel it confirms the existence of and acknowledges the need for good economic relations and the future need for a partnership between the economic entities of Quebec and Canada, after sovereignty is achieved.
The ties are so close, on this continent, between the economies of Quebec and Canada that it would make no sense not to equip ourselves to recognize the importance of these ties, first, and to make our economies competitive with the foreign economies we trade with and the strong economies challenging us, second.
If I may, Mr. Speaker, I will continue later on. I will try to show the superficiality of this coast to coast agreement. It does not take long once you have to consider the interest of this entire economic territory for you to run out of breath and it leads to policies like the one just proposed by the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans on the fee structure of coast guard services. With this policy, there is no hesitation dividing Canada into three and setting fees arbitrarily without basis or consultation of the parties involved.