Yes, it was a free vote.
In Canada we can confidently look at statistics as they are and we can confidently look at the reality which surrounds us in everyday life. I would like to make two brief points because of the time limitation.
Contrary to what the previous speaker said, statistics are a reality that cannot be denied. Statistics are there for guidance. If the statistics are not liked by certain members of the Reform Party, that is too bad. Statistics demonstrate not only in Canada but also in the United States that the murder rate and crime rates are down. That may not be good news politically for the ambassadors of bad news, but nevertheless that is a fact.
There is proof on both sides of the Atlantic Ocean that capital punishment is not a deterrent. This evidently has some difficulty penetrating into the consciousness of some Reform members. It is not a deterrent and it has been proven in jurisdiction after jurisdiction. There is one just south of us which can demonstrate at any time on any day that capital punishment does not deter crime. That has been established over the last 60 years in a number of nations so much that progress on this matter has been achieved exactly as a result of these findings in recent decades.
For the state to have capital punishment is tantamount to giving a bad example. We want society to behave in a positive manner with respect to life. We want the state to promote that concept. We want the state to do whatever is in its power, on behalf of the population, to ensure life is protected.
If that premise holds, as most of us believe, then we cannot have the state commit murder. We cannot have the state using violence on people. We cannot have the state adopting double standards. This is another point which is so difficult for some Reform members to understand and accept. The state has to give the right example. The state cannot use violence by snuffing out life.
This is an important watershed on this issue, in addition of course to other considerations, which we all well know, of misjudgments of people who were condemned and whose life was taken away and whose innocence was proven decades later. The records are full of those cases as well.
Apart from that aspect, it is well known, an established principle, that if the state is to give the example that the population must follow, the state cannot be seen as being the one that commits the action of taking away the life of an individual. Some criminologists have claimed in their findings that imprisonment for life is a very serious and heavy punishment for any human being, the removal of liberty, freedom and being able to enjoy the things in life that a free individual can.
It is clear some Reform Party members have difficulty understanding the validity of statistics. They do not exist for them because they do not confirm their biases. That is too bad. Reform members have difficulty in understanding that capital punishment does not work as a deterrent. I invite them to visit countries where capital punishment still exists and see what they have achieved in terms of reducing the crime rate. It has not made one indent.
A concept which is perhaps too far reaching for the Reform members to grasp is that the state must give the example it wants the public to follow.
For all those reasons it seems this motion ought to be defeated. I am sure that if it ever comes to a vote it will be. We cannot turn the clock back 300 years. We have moved into an era in which we have developed values and appreciation and in which we have learned from past mistakes.
We crossed this threshold a few years ago after a very lengthy debate and a very close vote; by eight votes. However, it was done and Canada is committed to being a country in which the death penalty no longer exists. We want to make sure that for the next millennium this matter will never be considered seriously.