Mr. Speaker, I have in hand the Senate Debates for May 9, 1996. There is a rather interesting exchange. It relates to the $50,000 and $20,000, the so-called accountability of its Standing Committee on Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration.
Senator Lynch-Staunton, the leader of the opposition, is asking questions. He asked: "As I understand it, the amounts that can be allocated to research run up to $50,000. Is that correct? There are also guidelines for office expenses, what used to be called the discretionary budget which was $20,000, where are the guidelines for those?" He asked questions back and forth about this $50,000 and $20,000, which was rather interesting.
Senator Kenny said: "Hon. senators we have before us the only guidelines that the Senate has dealt with or approved of. There are no further guidelines that have ever come to this Chamber for approval".
The leader of the opposition returned to the $20,000 and $50,000 and Kenny replied: "You really are confused. That is true hon. senators, the limit for sharing would still be $20,000. If you are of the view that it should be raised to $50,000-". Then Senator Lynch-Staunton said: "No, contrary to what people might expect, I am trying to be helpful to the chairman of the committee. I would like to know if the senators are still allowed up to $20,000 for office expenses".
Mr. Kenny said: "No, sir. As the report read, there would be full flexibility in the two previous budgets". Senator Doyle asked: "What are the guidelines".
The leader of the opposition said: "Just when I thought I had it, I fall back into confusion. Does that mean there is a complete discretion to spend the $50,000 exclusively of office expenses?" Then Mr. Kenny tried to explain it. This keeps on going. It would be laughable if it were not Canadian taxpayer money.
The leader of the opposition said: "Hon. Senators, I thought the question period had ended. I find this whole thing extraordinary. We are being told by the chairman of the Standing Committee on Internal Economy Budgets and Administration that because a report is before the Senate regarding research expenditures, the system that has been in place for years has now been abandoned".
Mr. Kenny said: "No, on the contrary". The leader said: "Yes, we are being told we cannot use our research fund to pay our researchers and that we must use our discretionary funds".
Mr. Kenny said: "No, that is not so". Then the other guy said: "That is exactly what we just heard". This one really caps it. Another senators said: "No, that is not what you just heard". The leader said: "That is exactly what we have been told". The first guy said: "Have you been sleeping?"
Senator Lynch-Staunton said: "We have just been told that every senator can dip into his or her $20,000". It goes on and on.
This must be exactly the kind of thing being talked about where $20,000 or $50,000 is taxpayer money.