Mr. Speaker, I think it is a disgrace that the government has decided to move a time allocation motion on such an important bill. Let me explain why it is a bad decision.
Under the definition provision, which is part of the amendments before us, insurable employment is defined. The definition of insurable employment has been a major problem for several years now: there is an incredible backlog of applications waiting for a decision by Revenue Canada. There are more than 20,000 applications on hold.
This bill had been under consideration for two years now, and we still have not found a solution to the problem; we have not come up with a way to deal with this very real problem. The government has only one goal, to recover $2 billion through this reform. That is its only goal. To get $2 billion in cuts. In the meantime, the problem is not going away.
Let me explain the problem with insurable employment. In some cases, employment can be considered non-insurable because the employee and the employer are not dealing with each other at arm's length, and the people concerned often file an appeal. It is true that sometimes the employment is proven to be non-insurable, but in thousands of cases, nothing can be proven and the people are successful in their appeal. The government has not dealt with this problem; it has not even come up with an amendment on this issue, even if we suggested some changes and mentioned the problem to the minister when he appeared before the committee.
By moving time allocation, the government is only prolonging these kinds of problems. The people affected by this issue are not the banks, nor the individuals who make billions of dollars in profits, but rather wives who work alongside their husbands on the family farm, for example, or spouses who open a business together or the sons and daughters who work with their parents. These are the kinds of situations we see in real life. No, the government is not ready to correct these situations, it is not ready to solve them. It will rather gag the House by skipping debate at second reading and limiting to ten hours consideration in committee.
As for the report stage, the government will also limit debate next week while there are concrete examples of problems that need to be addressed. The only way to settle these problems is to put an amendment forward or, ultimately, to send this bill back to committee so that it can do its job and solve these problems because this is totally absurd.
Pursuant to the appeal process, people who are not satisfied in the first stage must then deal with the revenue department. Across this country, Human Resources Development Canada has employment centres providing first line services. These centres are close to the people and can give advice, interprete the legislation. However, the government could not find a way to give them the authority to make the decisions in this process. No, they wanted the revenue department to do it, although it must deal with a mind-boggling number of cases, more than 20,000 cases, like I said. This is utterly unacceptable.
At the same time, on the subject of definitions, they tried to pull a few fast ones on us. First, they decided to give the definition of an affidavit. Do you know what an affidavit is? It is a statement which you make when you lost a document or when you witnessed an event that you have no proof of other than to swear it is true. Affidavits can be made in all sectors of life. But a definition is added here in the legislation to limit its application. And I can assure you that, when going after persons guilty of fraud and offenders, this legislation is a regulatory jungle.
The Unemployment Insurance Act can be compared to a highway on which there would be ten or fifteen different speed limit indications on a two-kilometer stretch and police everywhere making sure you are not over the limit. Often, it is not a question of being dishonest, it is just a failure to understand. The definition of affidavit will be a means to catch people, to ensure that we will be able to catch them. It is unacceptable and we have asked the government to withdraw it.
The same can be said of the word document. They put in a catch-all definition of what a document is for the purpose of the Unemployment Insurance Act. They did this to reinforce again the principle that people who receive unemployment insurance are trying to abuse the system. To consider that Canadians are neces-
sarily trying to rob the system is an unacceptable basic element of the government's bill.
According to statistics we have received, it is proven that fraud amounts to no more than 4 per cent. Four per cent of 2 million UI claimants-last year's figures-is not much. If we submitted businesses and taxpayers to such an inquiry, I believe we would discover a higher rate of fraud. But they decided to go after these people because they are less organized, less resourceful. That is where the government wants to go.
This time allocation motion will prevent us from doing an in-depth study of this bill. It is an important piece of legislation that will govern unemployment insurance for years to come. There will not be such a reform every year. The government has enough trouble as it is dealing with the impact of this reform on workers. You can be sure that it will not impose another reform on the maritimes because if the Liberal members from that region vote for this bill here in the House, they will certainly pay the political price for it in the next election.
What is the impact of this reform? It is a one-way street to poverty. One of my constituents told me on the phone yesterday that the Liberals argue that changing the system from weeks to hours worked will improve the situation, but we need concrete examples to support that. Here is a concrete example.
Previously, to become eligible for unemployment insurance, a person had to work 20 15-hour weeks, a total of 300 hours. Now, a new entrant on the job market will have to work 910 hours, or 26 35-hour weeks. So the government has dealt a fatal blow to CEGEP graduates who work in seasonal industries such as tourism, recreation and applied ecology. All those who have seasonal jobs or even those who just started their first job will be systematically forced onto welfare. And the present government has the audacity to use the term employment insurance to refer to a piece of legislation that will do nothing but send people on their way to the welfare office.
Because that is what awaits those who went to school, who attended primary school, high school, college, university. If they do not work 910 hours the first year, or 26 weeks at 35 hours a week, that is 26 weeks of full-time work, they will not be eligible. There are a lot of seasonal industries where it is impossible to work 26 weeks. Just try working in a peat bog or in the forest for 26 weeks to see what it is like. Just try working 26 weeks in the woods.
Yesterday, a Liberal member said that this legislation would motivate people to work a little more. I can tell you that, where I come from, the problem is not motivation but finding jobs. Things will be a lot more difficult for people who, even now, must keep two or three different jobs to accumulate the 12 weeks presently required.
True a system based on the number of hours may be interesting for some people. However, it is totally false to say that the government has tried to improve the situation. Besides going from weeks to hours, the government raised all the system's criteria and standards to make unemployment insurance less accessible. The savings give us an example of that.
The UI program will produce surpluses averaging $5 billion every year. It is not an underfinanced program, but a program used by the government to reduce its deficit. Since it was unable to get that money from foreign markets, it decided to penalize UI claimants without raising taxes.
It is a sad thing to see because, in the past, Liberal governments showed from time to time that they cared for the regional economic development by putting in place a good regulating system in periods of economic downturns, but the present government is killing it. Unemployment insurance plan is supposed to help alleviate the overly severe effects of recessions and prevent depressions like the one we had in the 1930's.
Today, we can say without a doubt that if the measures proposed by the government are allowed to stand, in the next recession we will find ourselves facing situations that are going to aggravate the economic crisis, which will have the effect of driving people from the regions to the cities, where there will not necessarily be any jobs. We are in the process of creating a model seen in certain developing countries, but that we never thought we would see here. The present government is creating this type of situation.
Another thing I find completely unacceptable is keeping the intensity rule. Under this rule, someone who draws UI benefits for 20 weeks loses 1 per cent of his benefits, another 20 weeks, another 1 per cent. At this rate, within three years, anyone who regularly draws UI benefits will drop from 55 to 50 per cent.
I will conclude my remarks with this. Twenty-five dollars a week is perhaps not much for people earning $60,000, $70,000 or $80,000. But people getting $500 a week will end up with $25 less, which now can be used to buy things, to keep the economy going, but especially to help people put bread and butter on the table. Canada's present government, with its reform, will bring all this to an end. I think it should be made very clear that gagging us will not solve the problem. This problem will dog them for many years to come.