Debates of May 30th, 1996

Justice

[Pierrette Venne, Bloc, Saint-Hubert, QC]

It is true, Mr. Speaker, that anyone can file a complaint with the judicial council, but the difference is that, when the complaint comes from the Minister of Justice of Canada, the council has to initiate an inquiry. That makes quite a difference.

I would like the minister to tell us why he is still refusing to file a complaint, in his capacity as justice minister, against the chief justice of the federal court. Could it be that he is afraid of having to appear before the board of inquiry? Does he have a guilty conscience?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, I just came from an appearance before the justice committee of the House on which the hon. member sits. If I can face the justice committee, I can face any tribunal in the land.

The fact is that our focus, my focus as minister, arising from this event has been on the litigation because we have three important revocation cases before the federal court. We do not want to see those cases lost or stayed and we have been arguing that they should not be. That matter I know is before the court. Then I turn to the matter inside the department and the question of how a senior justice official acted. I spoke to that issue yesterday. We have a process in place to deal with that.

When it comes to the chief justice, it seems to me that the matter should be left to the judicial council. I have not felt it necessary or appropriate to require an inquiry. I have already told the House that the judicial conduct committee of the council will be considering the circumstances of this case. I have every confidence it will do so thoroughly and objectively and that any required action will be taken by that council.

Government Contracts

[Chuck Strahl, Reform, Fraser Valley East, BC]

Mr. Speaker, it is interesting to note that there are three offices of the Department of Veterans Affairs located in Toronto. One of them, the Toronto north office, is actually located in the defence minister's own riding of Don Valley East. The job of that office is to explain veterans affairs

to veterans. Apparently the minister did not trust his own departmental employees to do their job and instead hired a political hack.

When he has such direct access to his own departmental professionals, why did the minister have to hire a music conductor to explain veterans affairs to veterans?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Secretary of State (Veterans)(Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency)]

Mr. Speaker, as I indicated, the minister will be in the House tomorrow and will respond to any questions dealing with the gentleman who dealt with the file on the Greek community across Canada.

There are a number of veterans affairs offices across Canada which deal with specific issues. This was a major change in legislation that affected a lot of people. That is why this individual was hired.

[Chuck Strahl, Reform, Fraser Valley East, BC]

Mr. Speaker, apparently the qualifications for these political appointments are not as important as how you conducted yourself during the last election campaign. The main qualification seems to be that you had to be a worker on the defence minister's own campaign staff. Incredibly the defence minister says that is just the way it works here in Ottawa.

Will the Prime Minister do something? Will he refer this issue to the ethics counsellor? Will he ask that the defence minister pay back the $150,000? Will he discipline the defence minister in some way, or is this really the way things are done in the Chrétien government?

[The Speaker]

Colleagues, I would encourage you not to use our names in here. We should use our titles when we are addressing questions and also when we are giving answers.

[Marcel Massé, Liberal, President of the Treasury Board and Minister responsible for Infrastructure]

Mr. Speaker, I have explained already the fact that there are two types of budgets. Departmental budgets are there in order to study and implement government policies. There are strict rules of employment. There are also exempt staff budgets. They are called that because the staff is exempt from certain rules. These rules exist as much for members of Parliament as they exist for ministers. There are hon. members by the way who have their campaign managers on staff and I can name them.

Under exempt staff rules the minister can employ staff who have a partisan relationship, and they are exempted by the rules from the normal rules that apply to the public service.

Justice

[François Langlois, Bloc, Bellechasse, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Justice.

In a ministerial statement yesterday, the Minister of Justice commented on a serious case of undue interference by an assistant deputy attorney general with the chief justice of the federal court. Faced with such a flagrant case of interference in the judicial process, the minister announced that an inquiry would be held.

Can the minister assert from his seat that he was not aware in any way of the representations made to the chief justice of the federal court by his assistant deputy attorney general?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Yes, Mr. Speaker, I can say plainly and unequivocally that I did not know until after the event that Mr. Ted Thompson had visited, communicated with or spoken to the chief justice about these matters.

Within a couple of weeks, and I think it was within a week of the meeting of March 1, I learned from the deputy minister that the associate deputy attorney general had had the communication with Chief Justice Isaac. At that point we ensured that the documents were put into the hands of counsel for the three parties. Indeed, it was at Ted Thompson's order that it was done and then matters went forward from there.

[François Langlois, Bloc, Bellechasse, QC]

Mr. Speaker, in the circumstances, does the minister have any objections to releasing the report of the inquiry into this matter?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

No, Mr. Speaker. I have already said that we will make public the actions that are taken as a result of the internal inquiry by Mr. Dubin. The former chief justice of Ontario has agreed to meet with justice officials who were involved. Indeed I met with him over the lunch hour to respond to his questions. We have opened up the files. We have invited him to speak to whomever he wishes. I look forward to his report.

I recognize that the Department of Justice above all departments of government should demonstrate a standard of conduct that is entirely above reproach. By asking for this advice from Mr. Dubin we hope to demonstrate that we are committed to doing just that.

[Jack Ramsay, Reform, Crowfoot, AB]

Mr. Speaker, if the justice minister learned about this meeting between his senior official and Chief Justice Isaac a week after it occurred, could he please tell the House when he ordered the inquiry into the activities of his senior official?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, if my hon. friend refers to the appointment of former Chief Justice Dubin, that was done within the last week.

I can tell my hon. friend and the House that the minute the deputy minister told me the meeting had occurred I asked for his assurances that we were going to find out what the facts were, have a complete internal investigation and that was done.

From the moment that it came to the attention of justice officials that Ted Thompson had been to see the chief justice, steps were taken to find out exactly what happened, to get copies of the correspondence and put them in the hands of the lawyers involved in the three cases. The department prepared materials to respond to the motion brought in court to stay the cases. More recently the department arranged for the appointment of former Chief Justice Dubin and his terms of reference.

[Jack Ramsay, Reform, Crowfoot, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the minister for his response. If there was an internal inquiry done, as the minister has assured the House, could the minister please tell us who authorized this meeting between Mr. Thompson and the chief justice, and who authorized the written correspondence that followed?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, Charles Dubin has just begun his work and I know those are among the questions he will be addressing.

To my knowledge Ted Thompson was acting entirely on his own in going to see Chief Justice Isaac and following up with correspondence. That is my understanding of the facts.

Former Chief Justice Dubin will look at all the facts and will make up his mind based on the record, and I will share it with the House.

Canadian Broadcasting Corporation

[Gaston Leroux, Bloc, Richmond—Wolfe, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Canadian Heritage.

In its report on the coverage of the referendum, the CBC justifies its unfair treatment of the sovereignist side during the referendum campaign by saying that public opinion in English Canada was opposed to Quebec sovereignty.

Does the Minister of Canadian Heritage agree with the CBC's policy that the percentage of public opinion for or against a given option is a criterion in deciding how much coverage this option should receive?

[Lucienne Robillard, Liberal, Minister of Citizenship and Immigration and Acting Minister of Canadian Heritage]

Mr. Speaker, the CBC is an institution that is independent from the government, and it is up to its board of directors to take action on the CBC's policies on the basis of the reports they received from their ombudsman.

[Gaston Leroux, Bloc, Richmond—Wolfe, QC]

Mr. Speaker, are we to understand from the minister's answer that, in the next federal election, the CBC should base its coverage on the fact that only 30 per cent of the Quebec population still supports the Liberal Party of Canada?

[Lucienne Robillard, Liberal, Minister of Citizenship and Immigration and Acting Minister of Canadian Heritage]

Mr. Speaker, unlike the Bloc Quebecois, we are not haunted by the fear of the next referendum; this government deals with the real needs of all Canadians, including the men and women of Quebec.

Cuba

[Beryl Gaffney, Liberal, Nepean, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of International Trade.

The United States government has sent a letter to a Canadian company threatening to ban its officers and shareholders from entering the United States simply because this Canadian firm has an operating business in Cuba.

Would the minister report to the House on the NAFTA consultations re the Helms-Burton Bill and how Canadian businesses operating in Cuba are affected by it?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, Minister for International Trade]

Mr. Speaker, it comes as no surprise that a letter was sent. The Helms-Burton law provided for that, although I must say it is only one letter. The State Department in the U.S. says there may well be more letters. These letters do not even say exactly what they will do. They say the guidelines are coming later.

We are still protesting this legislation. We believe it is fundamentally wrong. It is a unilateral action of the United States plying its foreign policy extraterritorially on Canada and other countries. That is fundamentally wrong and we will continue to protest under NAFTA, as the European Union is doing under the World Trade Organization. We are also examining our options in terms of our own domestic law to protect Canadian interests and Canadian companies doing lawful business in Cuba.

Employment

[Jim Silye, Reform, Calgary Centre, AB]

Mr. Speaker, today the Minister of Human Resources Development announced a $2 billion, three year proposal to share employment training with the provinces. The $2 billion will come from an estimated surplus in the UI fund of the $5 billion paid into it by employees and employees of this country.,

Why is the government using its taxing and spending power to maintain its position in labour market training even though the government has already recognized provincial responsibility in this area?

[Douglas Young, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for his question. Let me address its two parts.

First, the $2 billion being spent is not calculated in the surplus that is developing after quite a long period of deficit in the unemployment insurance fund.

With respect to the proposal the Government of Canada made today to the provinces and the territories, we believe we are responding to very legitimate and longstanding requests from the provinces to have more control, in some cases almost complete control, of the active measures they wish to put in place as they so desire.

This money is raised through premiums paid for by employers and their employees. We believe, as do most of the provinces if not all, that it is absolutely essential we find means to provide opportunities for people who are the passive recipients of employment insurance to get back into the workforce either by job creation or by providing wage subsidies, upgrading of skills, various techniques which we are very confident the provinces will take up and do a good job of administering.

[Jim Silye, Reform, Calgary Centre, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the minister said earlier in response to a Bloc member's question that the $2 billion is coming out of the consolidated revenue fund, of which $18 billion comes in from UI and $13 billion is going out. There is a projected net profit of $5 billion.

The federal government has a valid role in employment initiatives such as portability of payment at a national employment registry. However, a major obstacle to the portability of persons is the lack of common qualification standards and licensing from province to province.

What initiative has the government taken to ensure Canadians will be able to work in any province regardless of the province a citizen has earned their qualification in, like the problem between Ottawa and Hull?

[Douglas Young, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member raises an extremely important question. It goes far beyond the proposal we were able to put on the table today to the provinces.

The question of labour mobility is one my colleague, the Minister of Industry, has addressed. There is no question we have to rely on the provinces. If appropriate we would like to play some role as a catalyst in bringing the provinces together. We would like to set up arrangements which would allow for the mobility of the Canadian workforce.

As we function in a global society with NAFTA, free trade arrangements and all the rest, I think the hon. member will recognize it is a major challenge for Canadians, the federal government and the provincial governments to find ways to ensure complete labour mobility within the Canadian Confederation.