Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to participate in the debate on the Group No. 1 motions.
Since the bill was presented, debated and voted on at second reading, all members of Parliament have had an opportunity to reflect on what was in the bill and what has been said. I would like to try to put some focus on the fundamental issue in play here.
Unjust discrimination in all its forms is abhorrent to the House and I know to all Canadians. Unjust discrimination such as discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation or any other characteristic is not in question here. The courts have ruled time and time again that although those words are not in the Canadian Human Rights Act at this point, they are interpreted to be there.
Over the weekend, I had the opportunity to speak to a senior crown counsel. I asked whether any Canadian, regardless of their working for an organization or crown corporation under federal jurisdiction and falling through the cracks, would be covered by the laws of Canada and the courts. He said absolutely not.
The justice minister clearly pointed out to the House that Canadians are covered. The courts have ruled that sexual orientation already is interpreted to be there. The change, simply to add those two little words, should have absolutely no impact on what is happening today with regard to protection from discrimination.
Already, in the present laws of Canada, there is protection. Theoretically, this is a benign bill. It has no implications whatsoever other than simply to add two words. That is exactly the way it should be. No one in this House would disagree with that. We are equal under the law. There should be no discrimination dealing with labour relations, accommodation, services, membership in groups. For any of those things, all are equal under the law.
In discussing this bill at the human rights committee, the issue came up that if it only addresses the discrimination issue, the fundamental question troubling this House is why is there a preamble to somehow deal with the concept of family. There is something I need to know. Why is it, if the bill is to deal with the issue of discrimination, that the preamble tries to address the problem associated with family?
The little booklet distributed with the legislation referred to the traditional family. The preamble refers to family. It does not say the family. It says family.
There are different definitions. I am not a lawyer. I asked where I could look in the laws of Canada for the definition of family. I was surprised to learn that the definition of family cannot be found in a book anywhere. It is something that moves over time based on court decisions, based on social norms and values. Family is a very loose term at best. Very good arguments can be made on all sides about what constitutes family.
In the committee hearings at the vote on the preamble, the member for Burnaby-Kingsway interrupted the proceedings and asked the chair if the officials could please tell us whether the word family in the preamble excludes homosexuals? It was a very specific question.
The justice officials said the bill does not deal with family, it just deals with discrimination. The preamble is not relevant here. We will not confirm or deny whether homosexuals are included in family. It is not an issue here, yet we continue.
The debate between the justice officials and the questioner carried on. The chair of the committee interrupted to say that it includes heterosexuals, bisexuals and homosexuals. Moments later in fairness and to be absolutely correct, the chair corrected herself and asked whether she could withdraw that remark.
She is a former cabinet minister, someone who travels the world speaking on behalf of Canada on human rights issues. In the discussion on this very fundamental matter, she indicated that her emotional response was that family includes homosexuals, heterosexuals and bisexuals.
It is clear to me that ordinary Canadians and even the courts may, as a result of a fuzzy term, interpret family as something other than the traditional heterosexual family.
My understanding of the preamble is that it is trying to reach out to members of Parliament who are having difficulty with the concept of family. It is trying to reach out to suggest to them subtly that we are referring to the traditional heterosexual family. However, they are not prepared at this point to add that language.
My dilemma is that I agree 100 per cent on the discrimination issue. I know that the vast majority of members would say that discrimination is wrong and unjust. However, there is another aspect. If the bill only deals with discrimination, why is there a preamble? Why is it necessary to explain something that has no relevance to the bill? This is a contradiction.
Suggestions have been made that things like marriage and adoption are provincial issues so they cannot be talked about here. The decision about who can get married is a federal issue. The provinces have the responsibility to issue licences, but they do not determine who gets married. That is a relevant issue here.
It has been stated many times that adoptions are a provincial issue, so they cannot be talked about here. However, there is a separate classification for adoption of foreign children coming into Canada which is under federal jurisdiction. Therefore, adoption is a matter for this place to discuss.
In my work as a member of Parliament I have talked often about the family. I have presented over 100 petitions dealing with discrimination of the family. I have dealt with issues of taxation of the family. I have debated issues of immigration, the family reunification provisions. I have talked about the employment insurance bill which refers to family income credentials. I have referred in some speeches to OAS and the family income criteria. In this place we talk about family all the time. It is throughout all legislation.
When I was at a convention a couple of weekends ago a resolution passed which said: "We want to eliminate discrimination from Canadian legislation". The fundamental point is that all legislation, all policy, is by its very nature discriminatory. Discrimination is not all bad. We all agree that there is unjust discrimination. It is the positive discrimination, or in American terms, affirmative action, where we discriminate in favour of the family because of its special status. We discriminate in favour of disabled people, aboriginal people, seniors just to name a few. Discrimination is not all unjust. It reflects societal norms and values.
If this whole bill had only to do with discrimination the preamble should not be there. But in the wisdom of the drafters of the legislation it is there to try to appease a concern.
It has gone so far, but it has not gone far enough. An attempt has been made in these motions once and for all to answer the question, which I have not heard answered yet, but to which I would like to hear an answer: Does family include homosexual couples? If the answer to that question is yes, it includes heterosexual, bisexual and homosexual families, then the issue is very clear.
The member for Parkdale-High Park addressed the concern about whether other pieces of legislation will be affected. They will be because the definition of family must have been changed. Therefore, all legislation in Canada where there are references or inferences to family they must by definition be subject to court challenge. These are the issues.
No one in this place will support anyone who discriminates against another person on any basis. We must be respectful of each other's positions. However, these other questions have crept in. They are very important issues and important questions.
When I spoke at second reading, I said that I had questions and I still do. I mentioned that I still had concerns and I still do. I also mentioned that I had reasonable doubt about the consequences. I still continue to have reasonable doubt because of those issues.
I hope members will carefully consider the ramifications. How do we separate this bill between unjust discrimination and the other issues that have been raised in this place?