Mr. Speaker, I certainly have some difficulty understanding the parliamentary secretary's scheme of thought tonight when he says this is not the right place to discuss the motions I have tabled. It is indeed because we were not able to agree in committee that it is my prerogative as a member of Parliament to submit to the House certain observations that could not be heard during the committee's proceedings.
The implied spirit of all the motions before us tonight did not transcend the committee's work. I get the impression the committee was pressed by time, given Minister Tobin's imminent departure. The machine went somewhat out of control and we were forced to limit our work a little.
As a general rule, I am easy to work with, to communicate with. I must say that things were going well on the other side for a while, up till the moment when pressure from the government machine or the department, perhaps in anticipation of Mr. Tobin's departure, caused them to put aside the spirit underlying my motions. That is why I had to wait for the bill's debate in the House to explain what I mean to all hon. members and those watching us, since in committee we are not always able to speak directly to the people. That is why we are here tonight.
I always come back to the underlying spirit. I will read again the group containing Motions Nos. 24, 25, 26 and 27. It is quite simple. Since they are short, I will read them again. Motion No. 24 says "the Governor in Council may, in consultation with the standing committee and the provincial governments". Why refuse to mention one of the main partners?
Motion No. 25 says "after consultation with the provinces affected, make regulations". Provinces have direct contact with populations. I feel it is normal that they should be consulted before regulations take effect. If we adopt that line, we deprive ourselves of a source of information. Since provinces are closer to them, they are normally able to convey or express their populations' problems.
I quoted a figure in jest a few moments ago in the anteroom for the members who were there. I told them that if we were to take simply this framework, we would not be rebuilding the Constitution and the history of Canada, but just giving ourselves the tools that would allow us to settle in advance 90 per cent of the problems before they appear.
So, we must find information sources.
Motion No. 26 reads:
"26.(1) The Governor in Council may, in consultation with the standing committee and the provincial governments, on the".
I mention this motion again because we have here four groups of motions which say that consulting the grassroots is a good thing, that having a communication process, a feedback process is a good thing. Without such a process, we will run into problems.
Ottawa, the national capital, is a beautiful place, but it is right in the middle of the country. Of course, departments have regional offices, but that is not good enough when, as in the case of those in our ridings, they are all managed according to the viewpoint of Ottawa. Regional offices are maybe full of goodwill, but they have no contact with the grassroots. Therefore, it is very important to go back to the base.
I will try to go a bit faster. Among the other motions, there is Motion No. 39 which I find interesting. I will read it and explain after. I propose the following amendment:
"appropriate, members of those bodies, in consultation with the provinces and with the approval of the standing committee,".
Clause 32 says: "For the purpose of the implementation of integrated management plans, the minister ( a ) shall develop-( b ) shall coordinate-( c ) may-establish advisory or management bodies and appoint or designate, as appropriate, members of those bodies''.
If an organization responsible for the integrated management of oceans must be created, do you not think it appropriate to establish a good working relationship from the start? I would ask the federal government to discuss it immediately with those who created Canada, namely the provinces. That is the kind of ideas that should be discussed.
If there must be integration and implementation of a management strategy, it would be appropriate to consult provinces, since there will be more than two members on advisory or management bodies and those members will have to come from somewhere. It will not be from Mars. So it would be important to give the provinces a say in who will be appointed to these organizations, giving them a chance to ensure that the appointees will reflect or at least know their basic philosophies. As for the federal government, it will also ensure that this organization includes people who will reflect its basic philosophy.
I think that our actions are dictated by common sense so that, to make progress, we must share our ideas. We must then ensure that we have a say in the appointment of the people who will manage them.
My time is running out, but I also want to read Motion No. 66. If I do not have enough time to complete my comments on this motion, perhaps one of my colleagues could do so.
"(2) In exercising the powers and in performing the duties and functions assigned to the minister under this act, the minister shall, as far as possible, see to it that the provinces affected by the application of this act are consulted".
That is what I am asking. There was no mention of this in clause 40 of the bill. Clause 40 deals with the powers, duties and functions assigned to the minister in part III of the bill. This clause sets out in concrete terms the management powers assigned to the minister. Part II stipulates that he must implement an integrated management strategy, while part III lists the powers he will have.
I think that, whenever the minister takes a measure affecting a province or its people, he should consult this province. That is the least he can do. Why do I have to put this in writing? Because, as we just saw and as I have seen in my two and a half years as a member of Parliament, the federal government does not usually react that way.
Among other things, how come, in the case of the coast guard and the new fee schedule for commercial ships, there was no direct meeting between the federal Minister of Fisheries and Oceans and the transport officials from Quebec and Ontario?
That is why, Mr. Speaker, I am asking myself questions and calling on this House to include this kind of provision because the federal government does not react in a normal way. In other words, we should protect ourselves in all our relations. So this, in a way, would be our safeguard.