It is perhaps not due to jet lag, but I do not understand. Just to make sure all the hon. members in this House and everyone watching are clear on this, we are currently on Motions Nos. 28 and 30. Here is what they are about. There are two clauses on regulations in the bill, namely clauses 25 and 26. Clause 25 deals with recommendations of the Minister of Foreign Affairs. Clause 26 also deals with regulations made by the Governor in Council, but on the recommendation of the Minister of Justice this time.
If I am calling your attention to this, it is because the bill before us is trying to establish integrated management, which would effectively force all cabinet members across the way to talk to one another. That is great. Second, channels of communication also need to be provided for. Publication requirements are stated in each clause. But when we get to clause 27, it is not quite clear.
What I find shocking in all this is that, and I am getting to my Motion No. 30, and read the following in clause 27, paragraph 2: "No proposed regulation that has been published pursuant to this section need again be published under this section, whether or not it has been altered". What is the catch here? What it says is that regulations can be made, but that if they are altered, changes will not be published. I do not understand. Not only have we been told over and over all evening that this is not the place to talk about constitutional amendments and the kind of changes we would like
to make, but now we are told that changes will be made but that we will no longer be informed of changes made. What does this mean?
I will give the other motion the hon. parliamentary secretary mentioned. It is from the fisheries department, the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans. The proposed change relates to the provinces, and for once there was a clear reference to the provinces in clause 27. It was clearly stated that relations had to be established with the provinces, but they want to take that out offhand and write "notamment les provinces" instead. That was not said openly, but that is my understanding.
Since the beginning of the evening, I have been trying my best to make it clear that the intent of this bill is to establish integrated management, which means teamwork. To work as a team, you need partners. This spirit of partnership has to be honoured. Hence the need to clearly state who the other players will be. I for one believe it should be the provinces who make up Canada. How will all this be put in place?
Earlier, I mentioned that organizations would be established to oversee the implementation of the management plan. But we are denied the right to be consulted on appointments to these organizations. This time, we are told that it will be possible to make regulations without having to publish them again. Can you believe it?
It is becoming a tiring exercise. We spent a long evening discussing the issue. I spent hours and even weeks debating it in committee. This is the end result. It is supposed to be important.
You will notice that we mostly heard the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans. But there are others who worked on that committee. I would like to hear them. This bill on the oceans of Canada is important. How come there are not more people discussing it? Are we to understand that either it is not important or it is controversial and people do not really want to discuss it? I am a little disgusted by all this. I would like the whole issue to be clarified.
After all that was said, what will people at home think of the debates that take place here? This is like a dialogue of the deaf. The hon. member rises and tells me this is not the place to discuss amendments. I rise and ask where I can discuss these amendments. I am trying to make things clear.
I tell government members precisely what I would like to see included; I tell them I would like a clear reference to the provinces; I tell them I would like the government to respect the spirit of partnership that is required. But the time is never right. When and where will it be appropriate? Given the government's attitude, it should come as no surprise that it refuses to do a reform, to modernize things, and to take certain factors into account.
The government should not be surprised to see the population, at least in Quebec, express its discontent. We are used to having a referendum every 15 years. It is little things like this that, over the years, result in accumulated frustration. In a business and a partnership, if you want to be successful in the long term, you must first make sure that the parties involved will not feel they got taken.
How come this is precisely the feeling I have this evening? I am all the more convinced of that when I read that: "No proposed regulation that has been published pursuant to this section need again be published under this section, whether or not is has been altered". Can we believe this to be merely a typo that escaped the lawmakers' attention? I do not think so. But, since the evening began, when I tell you that I think we might really get taken with this bill, that is a striking example, which shows the sort of thing the government will say.
As well, why is there such a rush for Canada to pass this legislation? Earlier, I mentioned the relations between the various departments, and I told you about the committee minutes. The former fisheries minister said himself that his relations with the former environment minister were like the yin and the yang.
If it is not yet clear across the way, how will they manage to agree when it comes to speaking with the other partners described? The point I am making, but I see my time is running out, is that for once the objective seems a laudable one. I am forced to admit that, at a given point in time, a bill that sets out to explain to the left hand what the right hand is doing is very wise, but it would not do for the government to get carried away, with the risk, in wanting to see all its bills pass, of removing what is important in them. I repeat, if we listen to this, these are management tools to ensure that 90 per cent of problems will be resolved before they find themselves in-Pardon me.