Mr. Speaker, what the parliamentary secretary forgets or fails to see in this, when he says this is not the place to discuss the Constitution, is that I did not try to constitutionalize my proposals and I am not talking about constitutionalizing either.
What I say to them is that there are problems at the moment and that the federal government is not equipped to deal with the situation. I say they should look directly, look at the provinces which are prepared to play and they will avoid a pack of troubles. It is easy enough to understand. There is no need for constitutional meetings on the matter. However, sticking one's head in the sand is
worse. You cannot stick your head in the sand saying that you do not want to deal with the matter, that it involves the Constitution. When you have problems to face, you do not stick your head in the sand.
It does not take much for the government to say it will co-operate with the provinces, that it will talk to them directly. I can understand if it says it does not want to involve all 10 provinces. Alberta is perhaps less concerned about the oceans than perhaps either Quebec or Nova Scotia. It neither hurts nor takes anything away from the rest of Canada. That means that the meetings will go very quickly. Only the provinces concerned will be there. As for those that are not interested because of other problems or that prefer to let Ottawa handle it because they do not have the time, if it suits them, fine.
What I am saying is that it does not suit us and it is not reflected there. I did not ask for a constitutional rewrite. I only asked that the fact that we have to work with the provinces be taken into account. We have no choice in the matter.
There are other things we have to keep an eye on. With Motion No. 51, for example, we are asking for a consultation process, we want the matter to be sent back to the committee. Even though the parliamentary secretary tells us that the other place looked at it and said that it should go back to the committee every three years, it does not hurt to put it in here anyhow. I would rather know that it is the elected representatives in this House who are going to decide what to do with this bill. We are the ones who, within six months to a year, are going to face the people during the next election. I cannot tell my constituents in Gaspé that I could do nothing about it, that it had already been decided by the other place. It just will not work.
I am running out of time and words. There is a lot to say, but when the new chair of the fisheries committee rise-he is a very sensible man, at least he was last week-he too will recognize that people of good will can get along.
This is what our motion is all about. Look around, I am not talking about enshrining things in the Constitution. I believe that when you revamp a law, you should take advantage of it to make it more interesting. I already said at second reading that the principle could be good, that it was smart for the right hand to know what the left hand is doing.
I wondered why federal departments needed legislation to talk among to each other. However, it is there and we are trying to improve it. We are telling the Liberals it is there and we know there will be problems in relations with the provinces. We are mentioning that and they tell us we are trying to talk about the Constitution. I am not trying to talk about the Constitution, I am trying to solve some problems.
Motion No. 52 deals with marine protected areas-I have to go a little faster-but we would rather talk about protected areas for fishery resources. Why? I think that can be easily understood.
The primary objective of this bill is, of course, to manage oceans, but the second thing is-and I take this opportunity to point this out to the parliamentary secretary off guard in case he wants to comment later on-the Constitution provides that fisheries are under federal jurisdiction. I would be tempted to change this, but we will raise this some other time.
There are other management areas that are not outlined in the Constitution. There are grayer areas. To avoid problems, I would like that us to talk more specifically about fishery resources. If we want to get into the other domain, marine protected areas, there should be agreement with the provinces that make up Canada on what this expression refers to, what the government wants to hide in this expression, because it is unclear.
Is there a mixup or a misunderstanding, even if only in terms of the environment? There, I have said it. There are problems with the environment, even in the federal cabinet, at least there were in the previous one, which operated until February. I can mention it, as the two individuals concerned are no longer there.
When I questioned him at committee as to how Fisheries and Oceans Canada and Environment Canada were getting along, former fisheries minister Brian Tobin's answer was: "Yvan, it is like yin and yang". At the time, Environment Canada was led by Ms. Copps, who will be seeking re-election on June 17.
If two departments cannot agree on definitions, if they cannot get along-and this is stictly at the federal level, in Ottawa-if two members of the team, two experienced politicians like Mr. Tobin and Ms. Copps, who worked together for a long time, cannot agree on the issue, what are we to conclude? The problem is not just at the personal level. Mr. Tobin's colourful language is well known. I accepted his answer in good faith, because it was reported in Hansard.
I am trying to give them a chance by saying: "Let us not refer to marine protected areas but to protected areas for fishery resources; it is much clearer". The other expression is unclear. How would the provinces react if the federal government adopted this terminology? Have officials, at the senior and deputy minister level, met to try to make this designation clear for everyone? I do not think so.
This bill was at the second reading stage when the former fisheries minister commented on the relationship between his
department and the Department of the Environment, led by Ms. Copps, saying it was like yin and yang.
I will speak again over the course of the evening, but you can already see that, on this group of motions alone, we could debate for hours on end. That is exactly what we did in committee. Unfortunately, I had to refrain from submitting some of my arguments, because any argument defeated at committee cannot be raised again in this House. As you can imagine, I have a lot to tell you still and a great deal of information to share with the public.