Mr. Speaker, for the sake of consistency, I shall take it from the top. I am pleased to speak on Bill C-274 put forward by the hon. member for Mississauga East. If I may, I would like to start by setting the record straight because the hon. member, acting in all good faith I am sure, has questioned the procedure currently used by the sub-committee on private members' business.
Along with the hon. members for Mississauga West, Edmonton North and Okanagan-Shuswap, I sit on this committee, which, for obvious reasons, meets in camera to hold proceedings and only under these circumstances. That is because the House has seen fit for the committee responsible for looking into private members' business to be sheltered from outside pressure. What better way to elude pressure than to sit in camera, where we can discuss freely and frankly, without having people watching over our shoulders as we draw our conclusions.
Without compromising the secrecy of in camera meetings, I was able to assure the hon. member that no vote was taken on his bill in our committee. In fact, the sub-committee on private members' business very seldom takes votes. We usually report to the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs after reaching a consensus. I would say that, in 95 per cent of cases, we unanimously agree on the bills referred to us.
That is why I was taken aback, to some extent, by the remarks made by the hon. member for Mississauga East, as reported in the Hill Times . This is probably due to a lack of knowledge of the system, a system which has shown that we can have good bills and good motions in this House, provided there is an appropriate process and it is complied with.
This being said, even though the bill before us is not a votable item, it raises important issues including, of course, the whole matter of cumulative sentences. Under our system, when a judge
imposes sentences for various offences, he has a duty to state whether these sentences are cumulative or concurrent.
According to our tradition, a judge usually imposes a sentence for the most serious offence and includes in it the other sentences for lesser offences. So, generally speaking, sentences are concurrent.
The fact is that, under our criminal laws, including the Criminal code, judges already have the power to impose consecutive sentences when they deem appropriate to do so. It might be a good idea, during a debate on a motion to this effect, to look at the issue of sentencing. Do we want judges to make greater use of their power to impose consecutive sentences? Perhaps.
Perhaps the judiciary itself could deal with the fact that, in some cases, the imposition of consecutive sentences is justified. However, imposing consecutive sentences does not settle all the situations better than if it was ordered by legislation.
Inevitably, we will find ourselves in a situation where the compulsory imposition of consecutive sentences would become inappropriate. What can a judge do if he has no discretion? He will have to impose sentences that will prove to be an excessive burden for the individual who has been found guilty or has admitted his guilt.
The hon. member for Mississauga East also mentioned some people, notorious criminals, who were sentenced to one life sentence only. Contrary to the U.S. system, we do not have in our system convicted people sentenced to 200 or 300 years of imprisonment. Generally, one life sentence is enough.
In the case in question, as in the Bernardo case, since a charge was laid, the judge had no other choice but to pass sentence. It is up to the crown to follow up on the other charges or to lay new charges on additional offenses to try to get additional sentences for the criminal. But fortunately enough, according to a tradition we have here, in our country, an individual cannot be convicted before he or she has been tried.
If Ontario crown attorneys think it would be appropriate to prosecute an individual already convicted for first degree murder, it is up to them to decide what to do. The accounts we have heard are in fact very unsettling. That a person who has committed such crimes as those reported in the media-and I am thinking in particular of the Bernardo trial-can be released after serving only 15 years in prison, pursuant to section 745 of the Criminal Code, is quite disgusting.
The same thing goes for all the cases mentioned by the hon. member. It would be easy to jump to a general conclusion, but that is something we should not do before carrying out a more detailed study.
This bill also raises the issue of the victim's rights. I must say that the hon. member did a better job of getting my attention on that issue, because it is true that our system tends to forget about the victims. Their voice is not heard at sentencing hearings. When the parole board makes a decision, their statements are hardly, if at all, taken into consideration. These people are just left out of the process.
Attorneys are generally overburdened, and when a Crown attorney is put in charge of a case, he must do his work as quickly as possible, and he does not get all the resources he needs. Obviously, it is important that justice be done, but not always expeditiously. These are two points I wanted to deal with, the rights of the victims, consecutive sentencing and the right of society to protect itself.
Just because I do not approve of all the provisions in Bill C-274 does not mean I do not recognize that the society has a right to protect itself. It is a fundamental right for Canadians to see people who pose a threat to society forced to reflect in isolation on what they did. If this is not enough, they will be given longer sentences and they will not be eligible for parole.
When we heard from members of the Parole Board, I realized that there has been a very big improvement lately in the way the board deals with releases.
There is still much to be done but progress was made. Obviously, we do not now have cases as worrisome as some we had a few years ago. The watchfulness of parliamentarians surely has something to do with it as it is our duty to point out, on occasion, flaws in the system.
Bill C-274, which is before us today, warrants more reflection than a gut reaction. All the issues raised by the hon. member for Mississauga East are emotional, and give rise to such gut reactions. If we were to let our emotions colour our judgment, we would always pass stricter sentences and forget about the guidelines that insure a good administration of justice.
Since this is not a votable bill, I do not have to indicate whether I will vote for or against it, but the issues raised by the hon. member certainly give us food for thought.