Mr. Speaker, as I begin my speech, I would like to say that I support the
motion moved by the hon. member for Bellechasse. I prefer his amendment to my own and will support it when it comes to a vote. I hope he will vote for mine if his amendment is not passed by the House.
I want to make it very clear that my opposition to this whole bill, which I indicated by my vote at second reading, is because I oppose changes to section 745. My own preference would be to get rid of section 745, not in accordance with the proposals from hon. members opposite, but to get rid of minimum sentences for murder and substitute a sentence of life imprisonment and allow the National Parole Board to allow for release in the normal course of events, as used to be the case in this country before the adoption of section 745.
I recognize that would be a perfect world, which is unlikely to come. Therefore I am having to satisfy myself with proposing some pretty modest amendments to this bill which I hope my hon. friends opposite will consider voting for. I know that may be asking a little much, but it is still worth a try.
Bill C-45 has three main points. It takes away the right of multiple murders to apply for early release. I can live with that change in the law. It provides for a screening process for all applications before a judge alone. With reluctance I can accommodate that change in the law. It also removes from the current law the provision that a jury must recommend early release by having eight of the 12 members agree. It now requires that all 12 members agree. That is a change in the law which in my view will in most parts of Canada, as the hon. member for Bellechasse has said, result in no releases under this section. In my view this is unduly punitive and unnecessary for the proper administration of justice in this country.
I would like to look at what our system should be aiming for when it seeks to punish offenders or when it applies a sentence following a trial on a serious charge such as a murder charge, the most serious of all charges.
It seems the goals of sentencing should be first and foremost the protection of the public. Second, there should be rehabilitation for the offender. Third, there should be punishment for the offender. One thing there is not in our law, nor should there be in our law, is revenge. That is what I suggest is the basis for this amendment.
The law is there to protect the public. I put this question rhetorically to the House. How is the public protected by the long sentences that are imposed for these offences, the 25-year minimum will become the standard sentence if this bill is adopted, in my opinion?
From 1968 to 1974 the average time served by a person whose sentence had been commuted to a life sentence for murder from the death penalty, which was then in force, was 13.2 years. Every sentence was commuted during those years. How is it that if 13.2 years was satisfactory then we now have to look at doubling that to 25 years in order to mete out a suitable sentence? I suggest it is quite inappropriate.
During the years that there were commutations taking place, and I am sorry I do not have the exact figures today, I understand that approximately 200 persons were released under the auspices of the National Parole Board, in most cases with the consent of the governor in council. Of those approximately 200, my recollection is that there were only one or two who reoffended and who were subsequently arrested for various offences and brought into prison.
In other words, in terms of the safety of the public, the risk of releasing persons serving long sentences, murderers in particular, is minimal. I know members of the public tend to be fearful thinking that if a person has murdered once he is likely to murder again. However, the statistics and facts all indicate the opposite is true. Usually murderers do not re-offend.
These very onerous sentences, the minimum 15-year sentence with the provision for application to a jury for early release, was put in place when the death penalty was abolished. In my view it was put in solely to appease the persons who were in favour of hanging. It was to convince them that a long sentence would make up for the abolition of the death penalty.
This law has been in operation for some 20 years, as the hon. member for Bellechasse has pointed out. Of course no applications could take place for an extended period but then they started. As of December 31 last year 63 cases have been heard for consent to reduce the term of the sentence. Fifty of the 63 were successful in one way or another. Some of them were minimal reductions while others were significant reductions. However, of those 50, two are in difficulty with the law. One is unlawfully at large and one has re-offended. I note that it is not a murder.
There is absolutely not a tittle of evidence to indicate that the current law is not working as it was planned to work and as it should work. The risks to the public in the operation of the current law are minimal and the hon. member for Wild Rose knows that. He just buries his head in the sand and ignores the facts.
This bill before the House today, C-45, does not enhance the safety of the public. It simply proposes more draconian prison sentences on those who already have received a life sentence. It will ensure that they stay in for a longer period of time.
Let us turn to the second part, the rehabilitation of offenders. Do we rehabilitate these offenders by keeping them in prison for longer sentences? The answer from experts in penology is "no we do not". Longer sentences do not assist in the rehabilitation of offenders. Rehabilitation can usually, not always, be accomplished in a shorter time and usually the person can be released safely.
There will always be cases where a release is not safe, it is not in the interests of the public and rehabilitation has not occurred.
However, we have a National Parole Board which has had some extremely capable people appointed to it by this most capable minister, the Solicitor General of Canada, with the assistance of our most capable Minister of Justice. These two ministers have set an example of quality appointments to our National Parole Board, I am pleased to say. The National Parole Board is doing an excellent job in reviewing parole possibilities for inmates.
I suggest the punishment of 25 years without any hope of release is excessive. Even murderers in the United States are not sentenced to such long sentences. They are given a life sentence but the normal release period is less than 25 years. It is excessive and high by any standard. In fact I would suggest it is one of the highest in the world for murderers.
I am appalled that the government would propose such an amendment when I consider the cost of keeping inmates in prison and more appalled when members of the Reform Party, who profess to be budget conscious, are supporting this kind of measure. We know from the figures released by Corrections Canada that it costs between $60,000 and $70,000 a year to keep an inmate in maximum security. These lifers are being kept far longer than they used to be kept, and quite needlessly in many cases because the law states they must be kept for 15 years plus. Everyone knows they are spending more than 15 years in prison. The average has gone from 13.2 up to-