Madam Speaker, this debate is a very interesting one because Canadians must be wondering why in the world this government, with the demand that there is on the part of rational, reasonable, thoughtful Canadians, would be coming forth with this half measure.
They must be wondering what is on the mind of the justice minister, indeed what is on the mind of the Liberal members of this House.
What we are talking about here are people who are incarcerated as a result of first degree murder. This is not something that happens. This is not just an event that took place. First degree murder is the premeditated, cold blooded taking of a life. When we give them a 25 year sentence, we give the victim's families and friends an opportunity perhaps to put small bits and pieces of their lives back together over that 25 year period.
The Liberals consistently refuse to acknowledge that in the equation when a life has been taken, indeed there are family, friends and communities that grieve over that life that is taken.
All of us in this House as individuals have been hit with some form of personal tragedy, whether it is the passing of our parents, the tragic accident involving our children or something of that nature. There is a tremendous amount of pressure that comes into our lives individually at that time.
It is beyond comprehension that this justice minister, this Prime Minister and indeed the Liberal members would not realize there has to be a time of healing for the people, for the victims' families, for the victims' friends, for the victims' community.
I ask myself why would the justice minister, why would the Liberals respond in this way? Why would they come forward with these half measures?
Clearly it must be as a response to the bleeding hearts. It must be as a response to those who say we should let these people get on with their lives. It would be nice if the victims could get on with their lives.
I reflect the remarks of my colleague who preceded me in asking why are there no Liberal speakers. Why are there no Liberal speakers defending this weak-kneed, half measure by the justice minister? I suggest the reason is that they want to be able to stand up and say: "We supported the hon. member for York South-Weston. We supported his measure to repeal section 745".
Let it be very clear that any such claim is nothing more than a lie. The Liberal members of the House, in supporting this half measure, are in no way reflecting the views, the wishes, the desires, the attitudes and the direction in which the people of Canada want to go on this particular issue.
If we ultimately take away a 25 year sentence for a premeditated, cold blooded murder, what is the ultimate standard in our society for people who take the lives of others?
Section 745 still exists. The justice minister is simply trying to sugar coat it. Nothing less than the full elimination of this section will be acceptable to the people of Canada. Ninety-eight per cent of the delegates to the Reform convention voted for the full elimination of section 745. Victims of Violence, the Canadian Police Association and the majority of Canadians support the elimination of section 745.
If we as members of Parliament are not reflecting the views, the wishes, the desires, the determinations and the direction in which the people of Canada want to go, what are we doing here? We are not just here to fill seats. We are not just here to follow the Liberal bleeding heart agenda. We are supposed to be here to respect and respond to the wishes and the desires of the people of Canada. This bill in no way does that.
Bill C-45 still provides a glimmer of hope for murderers to get early release before serving a full sentence without the eligibility of parole for 25 years. As I mentioned, what we are really talking about here is the issue of the families and the friends of the victims of people who determined they were going to take another person's life in a fully premeditated manner. That is the ultimate in what we can do to another human being.
I wonder how many of the victims were provided with a glimmer of hope, the glimmer of hope that the bleeding heart Liberals want to give to the murderers.
It has been mentioned many times but I must say it again. Why is it that we can take away the possibility of appeal if a person has murdered two or more people in a premeditated manner whereas we will not for only one murder? Is this a bargain sale on lives? Where is the thought process of the minister and the Liberals in the
House? I do not understand why the justice minister, for example, has not simply gone to a system of seeing to it that murderers are given consecutive life sentences. That would simplify the whole matter. By going to consecutive life sentences Clifford Olson would have received 11 times 25 years and he would not be in a position to go after the victims' families again after only 15 years of trying to put their lives back together.
It has already been stated that the 1976 Liberal government was responsible for the elimination of capital punishment and the creation of section 745. And so we have gone back to the future. We have gone back 20 years to a time when the Liberals really believed this was going to work. I believe we have to go to the victims' families. We have to ask the victims' families if this has worked.
Our party, under the capable direction of the member for Fraser Valley West on this issue, has had this House agree to a motion that there should be a victims bill of rights. In all reality I do not believe we are ever going to see that. As long as this government continues to hold down its members and say "yes you will vote this way", and as long as this government is driven by its particular agenda, I do not believe we are ever going to see a victims bill of rights.
What about the future? What hope is there? On this issue, I read the following into the record on May 9, 1994: "Last weekend on Saturday I, along with about 350 other people in my constituency, attended the funeral of eight-year old Stephanie Graves who was attacked and shot in the Kimberley area". I read the following poem about her. It was read at her funeral by her class:
I like your eyes I like your nose I like your mouth, your ears, your hands, your toes. I like your face It's really you I like the things you say and do. There's not a single soul who sees the skies The way you see them, through your eyes And aren't you glad? You should be glad There's no one, no one exactly like you.
It is for the victims like Stephanie Graves and their families that we stand on this issue and say the weak-kneed Liberal approach is inadequate and will not cut it.