Mr. Speaker, it is a pleasure to speak to Bill C-53.
Contrary to some of the comments made by my Liberal colleague, the parliamentary secretary, I may surprise him and say I just may vote in favour of this. I remain to be convinced but I do want some assurances and it is only reasonable to ask in the House which is passing legislation that basically affects provincial jurisdiction. People like me are looking for some assurances that we are not being too liberal on allowing these people out for longer extended periods.
That gives my community a great concern. The communities of Abbotsford, Langley and Aldergrove, which have really seen very little crime over the years, have just witnessed five people murdered last week at once, a young girl killed months ago and on and on it goes. The people in my area are not used to this but it is coming at them in waves.
To stand here in the House of Commons and say yes, I might be for expanding temporary absences at the provincial, I have to be absolutely certain in my own mind that I am doing this in the sole interest and protection of the people in my area. During my discussion today I will be talking about the assurances I am looking for.
I recognize that the federal-provincial task force looking at these issues has come to the federal government asking why not put up a national standard on this kind of issue of temporary absences. I agree with national standards. I am looking for a national standard of victims' rights. The government said we are going to work on that this fall. I am looking forward to doing that.
Just as much as victims' rights need a national standard, perhaps so do temporary absences with all provinces in the nation.
If we are looking for national standards we are talking about increasing temporary absences from 15 to 60 days. I really have some questions to ask about that. I have some cases in my community of people who have been out on temporary absence who have done worse than what we could imagine. I really do want to know why the extension from 15 to 60 days. That is 45 additional days. I know it does reduce the bureaucracy and that sort of thing. I have to be convinced that an additional 45 days is in fact a safeguard for potential victims out there.
We are looking at a designated authority with the power to suspend, cancel or revoke a temporary absence. I do not disagree with that. I want to go through the EMP, the electric monitoring program the provincial government has, which I originally did not like. Since I have looked at it four times at length now I am beginning to like it more and more.
We are also looking at a designated authority to provide for the apprehension and recommitment of an individual. I do not have a problem with that either.
What is the difference between provincial and federal inmates, provincial and federal penitentiaries? If a person gets a sentence in excess of two years, two years plus a day, they go to a federal penitentiary. If they get less than two years, are they not that bad a convict? Are they the kind of guy who is going up to the big house some day and is just working at it or are they really a guy who has been at this for some time?
It happens in my area. I have met several inmates who are at one of the community corrections centres. The fence is four feet high. They are out in the daytime. They are not monitored. They have to be in at night. These are federal convicts on their way out to the street again. One guy I talked to said: "I am not really that bad a fellow. I was in for sexual assault". I said: "Is that all, just two years plus a day is what you got for this?" "Well no, it was three years". "Have you had any prior convictions?" "Oh yes, I have had 35".
Just because someone is in a provincial prison does not mean he is going to win the Mr. Congeniality of the year award. The fact is that people in provincial prisons in many cases are not very nice people.
It is not the first time. It is not just selling drugs. We have to be careful when we expand temporary absences from 15 to 60 days that we are dealing with the right people. There are good and there are really bad, if someone can call any criminal good. There is a scale in there.
The provincial system itself has some benefits that the federal system could use. Extended probation for instance. The federal system could use that rather than the statutory release and warrant expiry and they are out regardless of what crime they committed. There has to be a period where there is an extended probation.
I often tell this story. I will not prolong it. A fellow in my area coerced a woman in Aldergrove, British Columbia to go and get a lawn mower in the garden shed. He beat her over the head with a hammer, he raped her and left her for dead. He injected her with cocaine. He got six years and was out in two. Statutory release was coming up anyway. They said: "Gee whiz, he is getting out anyway". Before statutory release came, this guy stabbed Angela Richards 26 times and killed her in my riding.
Let us not make mistakes here even if we are starting to accommodate provincial governments. We have a duty and a priority to look after the safety and security of the victims and law-abiding Canadian citizens.
The provinces employ an electronic monitoring program. It is used in the temporary absences within the provincial system. I kind of like the program actually. It has application for some federal inmates. The person is monitored by a central computer somewhere. There is a monitoring machine on the end of their telephone which constantly keeps in touch with the inmate or the person living in the House by an ankle bracelet. When they walk out of range of the monitoring machine, the communication is broken. It reports to the central computer. The person is picked up and is sent back into the cell. When someone is using that process with a temporary absence program, it may be very worthwhile.
Another little story. I was out the other night on patrol with Corrections Canada folks. We were monitoring some individuals who are on the electronic monitoring system. One of the fellows had been caught selling cocaine for the first time. There was something wrong because the message from the telephone to his ankle bracelet was not getting through. We went to his house to find out what was going on. Had he disappeared or was he still in his house?
The value of his house I might say would be about $3.5 million to $4 million. It was the first time he got caught selling cocaine. He was put in a provincial prison. His house was worth about $4 million. It had a big pool which was half the size of this place and great tropical flowers. It was a nice place. It had a four-car garage which was big enough for trucks to load up with cocaine and heroin.
We found out what the problem was. The house was too big. He was walking around in a house which was so big it was breaking the signal. They had to put a more powerful receiver on him. This guy was on the same sort of a temporary absence which we are talking about.
There was a whole bunch of cars in the yard. Nice looking cars, too. They were new. There were lots of young fellows around. Who were they and what were they doing? They could not be selling drugs. It was the first time this guy had been caught, so that could not be the issue.
Before I left he said: "This electronic thing works great. The provincial government had a good idea. If you ever want to have one of these and you get stuck in your house, this is the kind of house you should be stuck in".
The trouble with the concept is that the house was likely built on the broken dreams of many parents. That house was built on the sale of drugs, in my opinion. There are young girls who are prostitutes in Vancouver who probably are the recipients of that drug trade.
I wonder if we are sending the right message with temporary absences. Are we doing the right thing? We want to think about that when we extend temporary absences from 15 to 60 days without too much checking.
What we really should be doing in addition to the temporary absence is taking his house. He should not be back in that house. I would seize the house and his assets and turn the house into a place for young people who are on drugs. It could be a transition house. We have to do more than just say there is rehabilitation and put him out on temporary absence from 15 to 60 days so he can be acclimatized to society. This guy is already acclimatized to society. The problem is he is selling drugs to society. That is what we have to look at.
What do we know about rehabilitation? A member come over to me a while ago and mentioned the golf courses in the prisons. They are learning to be good golfers. That is rehabilitative, I suppose. The member said that the golf course is rehab. I suppose we could think of a golf course in a prison as rehab. I do not play golf. It is too expensive. And I never did need golf as rehab in the first place.
I asked the prison warden to justify the golf course. This guy, who is the manager of corrections programs for the Pacific region, said: "For one thing, the golf course at Ferndale was built by the inmates and that taught them about the landscaping business. It was a useful education". Give me a break. That is not a useful
education. It is not really teaching them anything. It is building a golf course to keep them from being far too idle, which they are in prison.
When we are talking about temporary absences, as we are in Bill C-53, and rehabilitation as a result of letting people out longer, we have to define what rehabilitation is. If the Liberal concept of rehabilitation is golf courses, then the Liberals are on the wrong track.
What do prisoners think of rehabilitation? I found on a prison bulletin board the following notice about cognitive skills courses and rehabilitation of the prisoner. This I believe was on the bulletin board at Kent maximum security prison where the bad of the bad go. Let us find out what the prisoners who used their computers to put this up had to say about it.
What is the boosting cognitive skills program, they asked? "This 10 session program is another in a series of useless programs which were formulated by a group of heavily medicated and bored criminology students, who after having sponged up all the funding available to them from the ministry of education, decided they would try a shot at feeding at CSC's billion dollar trough for a while". This is the opening comment from the inmates in Kent.
When we talk about rehabilitation and temporary absences from provincial or federal institutions, we have to understand that if this is meant for rehabilitation, what is rehabilitation? It is important for the Liberal government to address that issue.
Let us just go on. It cannot be all bad for these guys. They say: "These sessions are for those who have already completed the cognitive life skills programs but who for various reasons are registered as low on the cogni-meter". That is good, I suppose. "If you like coffee and a different place to sleep in the morning, this program is for you", the inmates say. "For more information send a request to the programs department care of Bozo the Clown".
That is what inmates in this country think of rehabilitation. Not all of them do, but some do. The guards and staff in the prisons are telling me that is what the inmates think. We have to understand and keep in mind the need to mesh the right rehabilitation of an individual with temporary absences.
I want assurances that when people leave on temporary absences that we are protected. The bill does go some way in doing that and I will acknowledge that. That is why I may just vote for this yet, unless I can find a real problem.
Why the need to extend from 15 to 60 days? What are we actually doing? Are we trying to integrate for a longer period? Is it working? I wish it were working. If it were working Carol Goldy in my riding would not have been stabbed six times by her husband who is already out and is on a restraining order.
There was a fellow, a foster parent who sexually assaulted his children and he was out on a temporary absence as well. There is another lady in my riding who fled her house, ran away from her estranged husband who was out on temporary absence. He tried to burn the house down. Another lady's five-year old son was killed by her husband for revenge. He was out. On and on it goes. A sexual offender pleaded guilty to 13 counts of sexual assault. The police found a calendar detailing over 1,000 sexual contacts with children.
We cannot at any time during any temporary absence in this country whether it is for 15 or 60 days afford to have any further damage done to law-abiding Canadian citizens or victims who have already been victimized at one time or another. Keep that in mind. Convince me that the best interest of the law-abiding Canadian citizen is held in this legislation and I just may vote for it.