Mr. Speaker, I listened with some interest to what our Liberal colleague over there had to
say on this subject. I find it curious that this evening we are discussing the money to be allocated to the Senate, yet this hon. member refuses, not surprisingly, to speak of the Senate.
It is in the culture of the two old parties in Canada, the Liberals and the Conservatives, to hope that one day, if they are really good and have worked hard-and we know what that means if a person is in a large national political body, that they have served their party well-they can hope to fulfil their dream of finishing out their days in the Senate.
What does that involve? Finishing out one's days in the Senate means that one has all the benefits. Let me explain some of those benefits to you. I have had the opportunity of travelling in Canada and elsewhere with a joint committee. A joint committee is a committee made up of MPs and senators. I have seen how that works here in Canada.
First of all, senators have the title of "honourable", becoming honourable when they are appointed, and thus a rung above the members of the House of Commons. Travelling with them, I have heard a Canadian colonel on one occasion announce "senators first". People who have not been elected, who were appointed by the Prime Minister, who are there until the age of 75. They can be 35 when they are appointed, or 40, and will sit as senators until they reach 75.. And whom do they represent? No one.
Last summer, I was in England at a symposium where 25 nations were represented. You know, when we speak of Canada while abroad, we describe ourselves as a great country, an ultrademocratic country, the most democratic in the world. When we tell people that we have a second House, made up of unelected members who are there to the age of 75, they are amazed. They just do not understand. Appointed? For what reason? For various reasons.
The Liberal caucus, which meets weekly, is made up of MPs and senators. When they are preparing fund raising campaigns for this party, who are the ones with the time and the contacts for rounding up all the money this party needs to operate? The senators primarily. They have nothing else to do, so they become the bagmen for the two old parties.
This is a vicious circle. You will note that the Liberals are talking about all manner of things this evening except the Senate, because in their heart of hearts they hope, one day, to be appointed to it, if their leader so decides. Imagine the advantage of not having to run in elections. No longer any need to be present in the riding. Imagine all the advantages of being in the Senate.
We in the Bloc Quebecois say, and I think my colleague has said it clearly: "No taxation without representation". As long as the Bloc Quebecois remains in Ottawa, we are entitled to our opinions. What we are calling for is abolition, pure and simple. Why? Because we cannot agree. We have not for 35 years.
When I was a student at the University of Ottawa and the Senate was being discussed, there was a chapter this long in our book on the Canadian Senate. I remember that the Senate was described as a kind of British hybrid in Canada. Why was it called a senate? Because we are in North America, and there is a senate in the United States.
You know, when we are travelling we find that no one knows the Senate is appointed. People just do not know. And that is the question I would like to ask my colleague.
We are still in a federal system, with two levels of government. To lighten the federal structure, not to mention the tax burden on Canadians and Quebecers, would now not be the time to abolish the Senate?