Mr. Speaker, as caucus chairman, I might have told the hon. member that he was out of order, but I can understand that great tolerance is shown.
I find that somewhat regrettable. Reform members always talk about members' pensions. This issue seems to bother them quite a lot; it seems to be their main concern. I do not know if it is because they have financial worries, but there are many other problems which have to be examined. It is somewhat regrettable that their analysis is so simplistic.
I would like to come back to a comment made by the hon. member, in particular with regard to respect for the law. Of course, he toed the same line as the Minister of Justice, saying that sovereignists have no respect for the law, that they would not abide by the law or the Constitution.
What I want to point out is that, as one involved in politics, my primary concern is respecting the will of the people, respecting the democratic will. That is what democracy is all about. As well, when that opinion is voiced in a consultation like a referendum, I think that respecting democratic will ought to be the primary concern. And so it was. In the last referendum, 49.5 per cent of people said they wanted sovereignty. Yet no one said: "Let us go ahead anyway, because 49.5 per cent is enough". Everyone said: "No, we did not succeed and will have to work harder to try to win next time". Not only will we try, but we will win next time.
That is what respecting the democratic will of the people is all about. I am pleased to see that we even seem to be gaining supporters from the other side.
As politicians, our first concern must be to respect the will of the people. As for abolition of the Senate, that we will not do, because it is impossible, the law does not allow it. Since the law does not allow it, let us not change the situation. If the law does not allow it, and the will of the people is something different, let us change the laws to reflect the will of the people, particularly if that will is expressed in democratic consultations held within the rules. That is what we sovereignists are doing.
I would like to tell the hon. Reform member that he should be consistent. He is so concerned by public finances that, instead of wanting to bolster the Senate, improve its powers, he should instead rally around a position that is far closer to current reality and to what people want, which is to demand, and what is more to ensure, that the government will be forced to vote for the disappearance of an institution that is useless, out of date, and very costly.