Mr. Speaker, my constituents will be annoyed with you for failing to appreciate this riding in the east end of Montreal known for its proximity to the St. Lawrence River and its oil companies.
I wanted to speak to this bill in support of my colleague's amendment, because I want to say that the discourse I have heard repeatedly in this House from the colleagues seated geographically to my left strains belief, and despite their claims, does not serve Canadians.
I would also like to speak in support of my colleague's amendment because I think that Bill C-45, by its very wording, even as presented by the minister, is a bill that contradicts the very essence of the minister's arguments and that also contradicts the old reform, which undoubtedly needed to be reviewed, but not along these lines.
It is important to point out once again, as my colleagues have done, that the parole provisions set out in section 745 are not frivolous.
Before someone who has committed first or second degree murder can be eligible for parole, he must first of all, depending on the degree, have served a large part of his sentence, but, above all, he must get through three crucial steps. First, a judge must be convinced that he can convince a jury; a sort of trial must be held before a jury of 12 citizens with witnesses who do not make a decision, but who decide whether or not the parole board should hear the case and review the sentence.
In other words, at the end of a process in which citizens are involved as jury members, a process that is certainly not full of loopholes, a person who was punished for a first degree or second degree crime may be granted parole.
The government took advantage of the fact that people in western Canada were upset, and understandably so, when a serial killer became eligible for parole, and introduced legislation to strengthen, in fact to completely transform the conditional release process. I would say, and perhaps I am exaggerating, to anyone who is not an expert but is able to use his judgment, there is not the remotest possibility that Olson, the convicted murderer, would have successfully gone through the process leading to parole. It is absolutely unthinkable.
I intend to prove that by quoting statistics we have heard repeatedly, but they bear repeating: as of December 31, 1995, 175 inmates who were eligible to request a judicial review did not do so. Only 76 had filed such a request and 13 of those requests were still pending. Of 63 requests processed, 39 led to a reduction in the period of ineligibility for parole, and as of December 31, 1995, only one offender who benefited from this reduction committed a repeat offence when he committed armed robbery.
So we must realize that the government has used a situation that upset part of the public to act like Zorro coming to the rescue. No doubt influenced by Reform Party speeches feeding on intolerance and especially on anxiety, the government decided to give in, and it did so not unwillingly, because since in Alberta the jury would consist of Albertan jurors and in Quebec, Quebec jurors, in that distinct society, it is very likely that the same legislation will be implemented in widely differing ways.
Why? Because, among other things, this amendment of section 745 will require the jurors be unanimously in favour of granting parole, while a two thirds agreement was enough in the past. To all intents and purposes this clause become unenforceable.
We must ask ourselves a question. According to available statistics, out of 175 prisoners, 39 have obtained a reduced ineligibility period and, as of December 31, one reoffended. This goes to show that rehabilitation is possible in prison.
The fact of the matter is that a number of tools including training go into the rehabilitation effort. If individuals who have paid dearly for their crimes and cost a great deal of money to keep in prison can become valuable members of society, I think they should be given a chance. Need I remind this House that first-degree murderers cost us $76,000 per year?
How can we deprive society of citizens who, having paid their debt to society and proven that they were no longer a threat, having been screened through a judge, a jury and the parole board, are prepared to pull their weight and pay their way?
There are, of course, two completely opposite views to this. One is centred on punishment, on the pretext of protecting society. How can society be protected? How can distressing and murderous crimes be prevented from happening again when intolerance is promoted left and right?
I am no expert, but I see three main categories of crimes. There are foul crimes. Then there are what I call sordid crimes, outrageous sexual offenses, the kind you can forgive but not forget. There are also all sorts of crimes of passion. Under emotional strain, people kill for love or because they are overly possessive, having thought it through of course. It is a highly reprehensible way to solve problems. Prevention in this case does not consist in ensuring that these people remain in prison when they have paid their dues to society and no longer pose a threat to society. Why? In the name of what?
Whenever we address the issue of prevention, we must also talk about values, because keeping inmates in prison for life does not guarantee the safety of citizens when the people who are free do not share the same values of tolerance and generosity or the belief that disputes should not be settled through violence, including violence against women, which often leads to crime.
We should address this problem and give those who work in areas of risk the tools they need. But depriving people who have often paid a heavy price of the chance of having their sentences reduced is cruel and unnecessary. Instead of protecting society, this would create a climate and foster values more likely to generate and justify intolerance and violence than the other way around.
We must deal with realities. We must also deal with what I called the crimes associated with the mafia. This is something else. We need suitable tools to deal with this.
The Liberal government did not grow in our esteem by introducing this amendment, which will make section 745 almost impossible to enforce. It may be a little easier to enforce in Quebec, but it will still be extremely difficult. That is why, led by our colleague from Bellechasse, we in the Bloc Quebecois are asking the government to defer passage of this bill, to look at the situation a little more closely, to identify the real reason why people do not feel safe. Resorting to fearmongering is not the right way to reduce violence and reassure people.
Furthermore, being able to sentence someone to life without parole after going through the usual steps is important, of course. As a woman and a mother, I would be the first one to demand that a dangerous offender not be paroled, including for his own protection. But I know people who are rehabilitated, who are now good citizens and who have much more self-control than others who have never experienced what they have gone through, which will remain present in their minds. It is very important to give those who can make a useful contribution to society an opportunity to do so.
A punitive approach whereby the largest possible number of people would be imprisoned for life is in total contradiction with the creed of the members sitting to my left, the reformers, because prisoners cost a lot of money, even though, in some cases, there is no solution other than incarceration. As we know, and this is particularly true in the case of federal prisons, a person who is incarcerated and is not a hardened criminal-and I am not referring to dangerous criminals-can be released after two years, and can come out a hardened criminal. We have to call a spade a spade.
I personally think that when imprisonment for life is advocated, in spite of the high costs involved and instead of trying to promote preventive measures, we end up with absurd situations. We end up with situations such as in Ontario, where the minister responsible for security is proposing to build huge prisons in which electronic surveillance would be used to reduce costs. This solution was tried elsewhere. What happens is that we create enormous jungles where prisoners set their own rules. One would rather not think of the implications. This is a nightmare that goes beyond one's imagination.
So, we have to be consistent in our overall approach and be careful to avoid giving way to demagogy. We must protect our citizens. The little old ladies-and I am one of them-, who go out at night, must not be afraid. To be sure, we must try to create a society where we can live without fear. But we have to find the proper means. And if this means imprisonment only, we will not reassure our citizens, because the causes of crime are rooted in society itself; they are related to poverty, to criminal networks and to the problems experienced by people in their youth, when they do
not get adequate support. Violence also includes conjugal violence, which can result in tragedies and which can also destroy children's lives.
Therefore, I support my colleague. I deeply regret that the Minister of Justice has once again yielded to the demagoguery, whose goal is not to protect Canadians.