I hear the member for Kingston and the Islands in his usual form, continually talking when others are talking, continually being rude. I have come to expect that from him so I will just continue.
Since last Tuesday I did look over the justice committee meeting minutes. I noticed that where the witnesses spoke in the justice committee every one of them seemed to be concerned with time.
Mr. Jessop is a police staff sergeant and his concern, apart from the fact that he mentioned dangerous offenders, is why is the Liberal government not doing something about dangerous offenders. He said: "I am told we are not introducing dangerous offenders
at this particular point because it is not politically expedient to do so. I would suggest that this is not the way we should be thinking. We should be dealing with dangerous offender legislation". That was from a police sergeant.
He also goes on to say that the RCMP are really displeased with the justice agenda of the Liberal government. He said: "The government should be considering repealing section 745 if they want to restore some integrity to the criminal justice system". He continues: "Section 745 contradicts fundamentally not only public confidence but the entire philosophy of how our criminal justice legal system has grown". That is a staff sergeant speaking.
What about time? Are we rushing it through? He looks right at the committee and says: "You have the opportunity in the three days left-and I address this specifically to the Liberal members of this committee-to actually do the right thing. I would urge you to repeal section 745".
Mr. Scott Newark, executive director of the Canadian Police Association, also spoke. He was concerned about clause 5 of Bill C-45 which deals with victims' information. He said: "It potentially excludes victim information from section 745 screening hearings or judicial reviews, other than for new offences". He is right to be concerned on that.
He also pointed out that having notification on Monday, when he was out of Alberta, that the bill was going to be introduced on Wednesday, is terrible. Shame on the justice committee when they had ample opportunity, over a year of preparation on C-45 and on private member's Bill C-226 since it was introduced in December 1994. They have known about it since that time. He was correct when he stated: "It has been the case that parliamentary committees were supposed to have the time and the ability to analyse legislation". That is a very important statement. Indeed, that is what parliamentary committees are supposed to do.
He finishes with: "I share not only what I would call your frustrations"-he is talking to members of the committee-"but frankly as a citizen, the outrage at the process that is being foisted on people when the opportunity to do a proper job was present for over a year. And that is not only true on this bill; that was the case last year on the DNA search warrants that resulted in another sloppy piece of legislation without a DNA data bank attached to it". Those words are straight from the mouth of this expert. "The right thing here", he said, "is to repeal 745".
He was questioned on cost. As a matter of fact it was Reform's justice critic from Crowfoot who questioned him on the costs of these hearings and whether they were costly to the Canadian public. He said that he could not be definite but it was between $50,000 and $100,000 a hearing and that the more sensational hearings are probably up to millions for the taxpayers. Of course they take a lot longer than the original trial.
I look at this and say to myself: Debt, deficit and accountability. This government has us so far in debt and deficit, there is no accountability and let us just keep on having hearings even if they should not be allowed and are not necessary and to heck with worrying about the taxpayers and the dollars.
Witness Sharon Rosenfeldt from Victims of Violence International, who everyone I think is aware of the tragic loss in her family, said: "This is such an important issue it has to be talked about and addressed in a much broader context than is being done at this time by just a few days in a quick rush in front of the justice committee. I just cannot accept the new amendments the justice minister has put forward. I still have to stay with the total repeal of section 745".
What about Darlene Boyd, another person who has had a tragic loss in her family? She said: "Murder is all too readily said. Another word I frequently hear is rehabilitation. I truly believe that the man who took our daughter's life and that of the young girl from High River is not and never will be rehabilitation material, especially after serving only 15 years in his confined environment. To rehabilitate there has to be some spark of remorse and James Peters did not demonstrate any of this. The chance of filtering men like James Peters back into society after 15 years through the system we now have is too great a risk. We will be digging more graves for innocent people".
I think the member for Kingston and the Islands again misses the point, the chance is there and that is what is so frightening and scary.
There is witness Debbie Mahaffy. We all know about Debbie's loss. She said: "We found out about the various committee hearings by accident and I am very glad that we scrambled our way to Ottawa and got here on time". What is this rush? "Is life in prison with no eligibility for parole up to 25 years enough for taking the life of one person? No. Is it enough for taking the life of more than one person? No. Is 25 years a waste of a life? Yes. But the killers who decided to murder my daughter made that choice. By doing so they decided their own fate and are now wasting their lives in comfort. Our laws should reflect our evolving society and everyone in society should be protected by our laws".
These witnesses are people who are experienced. They are not removed from the situation. Debbie finishes with: "It is irresponsible of this government to allow time that much power and control over its decisions. Less time for communication, less time for discussion, less time for murderers to serve is a sad commentary on the quality of life we are now leaning toward in Canada".
The presentation by Priscilla de Villiers, president of CAVEAT, is very interesting. She said:
I am appalled at the way this has been presented to the people of this country. I am appalled not just because of section 745 or any other section of the Criminal Code. This is a travesty of the parliamentary system.
We have had a bill asking for discussion of this on the books for 18 months. We got an official communique on Thursday, I think. I first read this bill on the airplane to Saskatchewan and Steve Sullivan and I had to come back in the middle of last night to beg for five minutes of time to make our little statement because we are the few people here who do not benefit from the system. Shame.
Shame on this reluctant concession to what is becoming very quickly a serious election issue. Shame on you that you have not taken into account the words of ordinary Canadians who say: We are bothered by this; we are concerned. Give it the consideration it deserves. If you then, in your wisdom as a governing party decide not to support it, fine, that is your right. But to have this ramshackle excuse for an appearance just to say that we actually appeared here, it is a shame on the entire process.
I have to agree with her. Why has this country deteriorated so far from people facing responsibilities for their actions? It began in 1971 with the Liberals and Solicitor General Goyer who summed up the government agenda when he told Parliament: "We have decided to stress the rehabilitation of individuals rather than the protection of society". Therein says it all. They stressed the belief that society and not the criminal was responsible for the crime. From that time on the whole system existed to serve the criminal. And in 1976 when the Liberal government abolished capital punishment, Canada replaced it with a life sentence of 25 years.