Debates of Oct. 23rd, 1997

Quebec-France Agreement On Child Support

[Daniel Turp, Bloc, Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs.

The minister is refusing to approve the Quebec-France agreement claiming the need to refer to the Canada-France agreement.

Will the minister acknowledge that the master agreement he is referring does not even apply at the moment, since it has not been ratified by the French National Assembly?

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, article 26 of the Canada-France agreement provides the following:

France and the provinces and territories of Canada may enter into arrangements concerning any matter dealt with in this Convention that is within provincial or territorial jurisdiction, to the extent that such arrangements are not inconsistent with the provisions of this Convention.

The provisions of the Canada-France agreement must be met when agreements are to be signed with the provinces.

[Daniel Turp, Bloc, Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs did not answer the question.

I repeat my question: Is this agreement in effect and is he objecting to the conclusion of an agreement between Quebec and France on a treaty that is not even in effect?

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, the treaty is not yet in effect, but it is through this treaty that agreements may be signed between the provinces and the French government until it does take effect.

One thing must be clearly understood: Quebeckers cannot have rights with force of law in France, unless it is in the context of a treaty between governments, according to French provisions, in fact. For the good of Quebeckers, may the Government of Quebec negotiate with the Government of Canada as quickly as possible.

Labour

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, in July the trade minister gave assurances that Canada was fighting to protect our labour standards in negotiating the multilateral agreement on investment.

A leaked document now reveals that the minister was giving these assurances at the very same time Canada's negotiators were sitting on the sidelines in total silence. It was left to the United States to propose tough labour and environmental standards. This government sold us out on NAFTA. It is now selling us out on the MAI.

When will the Minister for International Trade stop using labour and environmental protection as bargaining chips for international investors?

[Sergio Marchi, Liberal, Minister for International Trade]

Mr. Speaker, the leader of the third or fourth party, whatever it is, should stop using hysteria as opposed to selling the government or Canada short.

It is very important for Canada to be at the MAI table not only for the purposes of attracting foreign investment to Canada, which is about jobs and economic activity, but there is as much investment by Canadians abroad as we have investment coming in. It is a two way street and we need to protect that.

Insofar as labour and environment—

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, that is the problem. Labour and environmental standards are always an afterthought with the government. The Liberals have become wimps when it comes to protecting our labour and environmental standards in trade deals.

When asked about Canada's failure to fight for tough standards in the MAI, the trade minister said he does not want the binding version, the Cadillac version. If clean air, clean water, decent wages and safe working conditions are the minister's Cadillac model, imagine what his economy model must look like.

Will the trade minister instruct our negotiators to stand up for Canadian workers and a clean environment when they meet next week in Paris to continue negotiations on the MAI?

[Sergio Marchi, Liberal, Minister for International Trade]

Mr. Speaker, first, this minister said no such thing to the The Globe and Mail reporter. We never said that they would be used as bargaining chips. We never said that Canada would not support binding references to both labour and environment.

The Canadian position has been made very clear. You cannot judge a position from one set of meetings going back to 1995. Canada has said as much as the Americans with respect to labour and environment. We want both issues addressed by the MAI just the way NAFTA has addressed both environment and labour to its satisfaction.

Fisheries

[Jean Charest, Progressive Conservative, Sherbrooke, QC]

Mr. Speaker, thousands of jobs in the fishing industry on the Pacific coast have been lost in 1996 because of a bad season, but also because of the government's policies.

I would like to know whether the Minister of Human Resources Development is going to make some funding available, funding that has since dried up, to help the coastal communities, and whether the government is preparing an adjustment strategy for those coastal communities so that the families affected can be helped?

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, the government remains very preoccupied with the situation in Newfoundland and I welcome the question put to me by the Conservative leader.

I think he is absolutely right that some of these situations need to be monitored very closely. At the beginning of this month I asked one of my very senior officials, a person who is very talented, to review the post TAGS situation and its impact on the communities, the fishers, their families and on the provincial finances as well. He is supposed to bring a report back to me in December.

[Jean Charest, Progressive Conservative, Sherbrooke, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the minister and the government will also know that thousands of Canadians on both coasts, east coast and west coast, are dramatically affected by the dwindling stocks, by the situation that we are in today.

If the Reformers do not care about this issue and will not ask questions, maybe they will want to listen to what happens in this House. I want to know from the government, when will there be a national policy on fisheries, one that has as its cornerstone the issue of sustainable development for this country so that these Canadians will know that there is a future for the fishery in Canada.

[David Anderson, Liberal, Minister of Fisheries and Oceans]

Mr. Speaker, had the hon. member bothered to attend the debate that took place today in the House up to the question period and if he bothers to wait and come back to the House after question period, he will discover that it is a Tory motion on this very issue that we are discussing.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

Many times we have slips of the lip and I am sure the hon. Leader of the Opposition will want to withdraw that. Oh, excuse me, not you, the member would withdraw that.

[Jean Charest, Progressive Conservative, Sherbrooke, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I am sure the Leader of the Opposition would actually want to withdraw.

[The Speaker]

I put it to you directly, will you withdraw the word please.

[Jean Charest, Progressive Conservative, Sherbrooke, QC]

Mr. Speaker, out of respect for the Chair and for the House, I will withdraw the word.

Environment

[Bill Gilmour, Reform, Nanaimo—Alberni, BC]

Mr. Speaker, in response to the last question to the environment minister, she answered by stating that the way to solve the global warming problem is to work together. I have to ask, why is she not doing that?

Ordinary Canadians will be paying for this deal. The provinces will now likely have to administer it. It only makes sense to have the provinces' agreement before she gets to Kyoto. I once again ask the minister, will the minister ensure that she has the agreement of all the provinces before she gets to Kyoto, and not after?

[Christine Stewart, Liberal, Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, the provinces are working with me in discussing this very important issue. They are well apprised of what we are doing as a responsible nation in the international community.

There are many thousands of Canadians who are very concerned about this issue. The Reform seems blind to that reality. There are many companies, including Loeb grocers, who have reduced their greenhouse gas emissions, their energy costs by 30% by reducing the speed limits on their delivery trucks to 90 to 95 kilometres an hour. They are saving 30% of their—

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Nanaimo—Alberni.

[Bill Gilmour, Reform, Nanaimo—Alberni, BC]

Mr. Speaker, she simply will not answer the question.

The environment minister said in the House yesterday that she is going to strike a deal in Kyoto and only then get the co-operation from the provinces. This is clearly unacceptable to the provinces. Alberta's environment minister has publicly stated that Alberta will not accept legally binding limits arrived at this manner.

I ask the environment minister once again, will the minister commit to getting the agreement of the provinces before she goes to Kyoto, yes or no?

[Christine Stewart, Liberal, Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, in discussing this issue with my provincial counterparts yesterday, including the minister from Alberta, I believe that we are satisfied that we are working together on this issue in a transparent manner. I also believe that the minister of the environment in Alberta is very concerned about the negative impact of climate change on his province.

France-Quebec Agreement On Collection Of Support Payments

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, we have just learned that the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs is insisting on blocking the agreement between Quebec City and Paris for the simple reason that the Canadian agreement has yet to be signed and is therefore not yet in existence.

How can the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs block an agreement negotiated in good faith between Quebec City and Paris just because there is a Canadian agreement that has not yet been signed, that does not have force of law and that does not therefore exist?

[Ted McWhinney, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, the master agreement between France and Canada exists. The basis for that is international public law.

So no agreement between Quebec and France can have legal force outside Canada without the support of the Government of Canada. The Government of France has already indicated that the federal government's agreement preliminary to the signing of a legal agreement—

[The Speaker]

I apologize for interrupting the hon. member. The member for Roberval.