Mr. Speaker, I am a bit surprised by the minister's responses to my two colleagues' questions, particularly on the subject of minority rights.
I am surprised at not having heard anything from him since his arrival here on the assimilation of francophones in Manitoba, for example, or the assimilation of 72% of the francophones in British Columbia. I am also very surprised that he did not rise in response to remarks by a member of his party, the member for Vaudreuil. He spoke in committee, but did not rise in the House when the member for Vaudreuil said “I want anglophones in Quebec to have the same rights as francophones in Manitoba, Ontario and British Columbia”. This kind of argument does not hold water, given the rights enjoyed by the anglophones in Quebec.
If francophones in the rest of Canada had only 10% or 15% of these rights, they would be in heaven. And in a committee struck by this minister and this government, for remarks such as these to come from the mouth of a member from Quebec, the member for Vaudreuil, al I can say is this is what these empty committees lead to. In Newfoundland, 73% of the population and a royal commission have shown that this is clearly what they want. And clearly this committee will come to the same conclusion reached in Newfoundland. Otherwise, everything would be topsy turvey.
The central government is the offspring of the provinces, rather than the reverse. So the provinces should be telling the central government what to do. They must tell the central government: “We are transferring jurisdictions over to you”. But the federal government has no business interfering in provincial jurisdictions. There is a will that was clearly expressed.
Once again, I agree with our party critic. We will not object to the establishment of the committee, so that this is not interpreted as our being opposed to the motion per se. But it is nonetheless ridiculous to spend time and money to sit and discuss rights and democracy with unelected senators, with remnants of colonialism.
I do not see any need to go to the great dormitory to come to an honest and appropriate decision. We could do without these hon. sleepyheads, as a now retired senator used to call them before becoming one of them.
I repeat, there is no need for such a committee since there is a clear and unequivocal will. And if the government had wanted to do the right thing, the responsible thing, it would have tabled a motion and we could have moved on, instead of wasting time and money when the people have clearly expressed their will.
The same is happening with the Quebec resolution. When I see a minister, an academic from Quebec, question a unanimous resolution passed by the National Assembly, after the consultations that have taken place, after the anglophone minorities were consulted, after anglophone members from Quebec said they were satisfied following the changes they themselves proposed. Here is a minister from Montreal, who, while having some experience and knowing that the entire Montreal intelligentsia realizes that this resolution should have been passed 30 years ago, is wasting our time and, for partisan purposes before the election, refused to bring in a motion to settle the matter. I can see the minister leaving. I cannot blame him. Sometimes the truth is hard to take.
Instead of bringing in a motion, he focused on the election, and today he is referring the matter to committee. What do we hear in these committees? Stupidities and idiotic comments such as those made by the members for Vaudreuil and Mount Royal. This is a fine kettle of fish. The government decided to strike such a committee, but when the minister goes around with his committee's picnic basket, he does not realize that ants are getting into the basket and that,moreover, these ants are Liberal Party members.
We hear extremists make all sorts of idiotic comments and present arguments not based on any principle or consultation. Such is the threat posed by these committees, particularly expanded committees, with senators, or members of the other place as we say here, who want to give us lessons in democracy. The world's most undemocratic institution sits next to us, and this government is giving it importance in two ways: first, by having senators sit on so-called joint committees and, second, by appointing new senators when others retire.
There is only one way to deal with the Upper House: it must be abolished. Conduct a poll and hold a referendum. You will see what the public thinks. In Quebec, 92% are in favour of abolishing that institution. The only way to get rid of the Upper House is by attrition, as we did in Quebec. I believe it was the Bertrand government which made a pact with the Quebec Senate. It stopped appointing new senators and told those who were there “Go home. You will get paid for the rest of your life. After all, you only come here for that pay cheque”. They were absolutely useless. This is a cancer we must get rid of.
This upper House is a hotbed of patronage, and this is something that the Liberal Party specializes in, patronage, financing, rewarding buddies, this is what the Liberal Party stands for. You keep the operation open and when you have a chance you put in another buddy, as was done for the latest appointments, for example.
However, while considering this issue here, with this debate on the creation of this useless committee, we have at least the opportunity to ask the following question: When the people of Newfoundland approved the referendum with a 54% majority and then when judges, not from the Supreme Court this time with their Santa Claus costumes, but judges from the Superior Court ruled that the question was not appropriate, what did the Government of Newfoundland do? It told them where to go and it held another referendum. What does the federal government do? It says: “There was a second referendum and the yes side won again so we will agree to create a committee and put a resolution before the House to have it approved”.
But have you noticed that when Quebec is involved, people refer to the Supreme Court? In this case, even if there is a referendum in Quebec, people say: “In this case this is not acceptable”. If there is a referendum on sovereignty, people will say: “This is not acceptable”. In the case of Newfoundland, it told its Superior Court where to go and it held a referendum.
Personally, I prefer to tell the minister and his government colleagues that when there is a referendum with a clear yes for sovereignty, nobody, but nobody will prevent a people from going forward, especially not judges from the Supreme Court dressed in Santa Claus costumes and appointed by the Liberal Party.
This debate at least gives us the opportunity to show to all Quebeckers that if they want to assume responsibility for themselves by voting yes in a referendum, the federal government will have to submit to their will, like Newfoundland has just done. It did not appeal the ruling of the court. It said “We are having another referendum”. And bang, the government finds itself forced to respect that desire.
I wonder, when I hear what is being said in the House today, if the suggestion does not need to be made that, when this committee's work is over—which I hope will be as soon as possible—and when it comes back to this House, if we could not talk of the rights of francophone Newfoundlanders, and make a little comparison between the rights of the francophone Newfoundlanders and the rights, the treatment—a source of great pride to us—of the anglophones of Quebec. The anglophone minority in Quebec is the best treated minority in the world, and Quebecers are proud of that.
And we will continue to be proud after sovereignty, when we will still be cited as an example throughout the world for the way we treat our anglophone minority, for our anglophone minority in Quebec has played an important part in our development as a nation. I cannot say the same for the treatment reserved for the francophone Newfoundlanders, the Franco-Manitobans. If we review the history of the provinces, when most of the Canadian provinces were founded, francophones outnumbered anglophones. Today, because of legislation passed in recent years, the past 20, 30, 40 or 50 years, legislation forbidding francophones from having the same rights as anglophones, the rate of assimilation has been so strong that it is still 72% in British Columbia and 60% in Manitoba, and francophones who speak French in the home are virtually non-existent in the western provinces. They were a majority when these provinces came into being.
At the end of our proceedings in committee, we could perhaps tell Newfoundland to provide its French speaking population, in its regulations, practices and school boards, the same rights English speaking Quebekers have in Quebec. I dream of the day when the federal government and the other provinces in Canada will have enough determination to sign a reciprocal treaty concerning the rights of anglophones in Quebec and of francophones in the rest of Canada.
Ask French speaking people in the rest of Canada, in your provinces, whether they would support a motion in this House granting them the same rights English speaking Quebeckers are enjoying. They have English primary schools and high schools and comprehensive education in English from kindergarten to university. They have three universities when they make up only 10% of the Quebec population. Mr. Larose, in his testimony before the committee, listed all the benefits English speaking Quebekers have in Quebec. As a majority and as a government, we are proud to give them those benefits because they are full-fledged members of Quebec society. We are proud. How nice it would be if French speaking Canadians could say the same.
The Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs seems to like committees a lot. Let me suggest one to him, a committee on minority rights in Quebec and Canada. Let us review these rights province by province. Some people here will be ashamed because, as happened a couple years ago, the French speaking minority had to go to school in sheds, with kids having to go to the outhouse. Things have been that bad for some French speaking Canadians. We have been talking about that. Some of them are treated that way. We could compare, and then talk about bilingualism and about the two official languages of this great Canada. We would see what the real situation is like, and how serious the assimilation problem is.
Therefore, this committee should be as short-lived as possible. As a matter of fact, it should not even have been struck; however, it must be because of the minister's public commitment to do so, thus wasting a lot of time and money. The government has probably run out of ideas, as it usually does when it comes to interesting issues, such as how to deal with unemployment, use the employment insurance surplus, develop a policy to eliminate the deficit, review the cuts to social programs in order to remedy the situation since the economy is improving. Rather than dealing with these things, it keeps on talking about the Constitution. It is the world gone topsy turvey. All the federal government wants to do is talk about the Constitution and strike constitutional committees, instead of dealing with the issue in one day, when Newfoundland has made its wishes clearly known.
I hope this committee will be short-lived and that it will also be seen as an opportunity to ponder the rights of francophones outside Quebec.