Mr. Speaker, it is with pleasure that I address the debate today on term 17 and the Newfoundland educational system.
It is extremely important for all of us to look at what a Canadian constitution is and to decide whether it is an historical document with no relevance to today's society. Should it be a document that evolves with the changes in our society, stays up to date with the times and changes with the needs expressed in different communities?
The motion before the House refers to term 17 and the Newfoundland agreement of coming into Confederation. It deals with denominational schools and whether or not they should be run by the churches as opposed to the state.
This situation has occurred over the years and was brought into question in 1992 by the Williams Royal Commission on Education that reported to the government with recommendations for change.
Discussions were entered between the government and the churches to try to come up with some kind of consensus. They were unable to do so.
Because of this situation then Premier Clyde Wells of Newfoundland attempted to reach a compromise position in 1995 with the churches and the government by introducing a constitutional amendment to term 17 which altered but did not eliminate denominational rights. On September 5, 1995 the people of Newfoundland voted in a referendum on the following question:
Do you support revising term 17 in the manner proposed by the government to enable reform of the denominational education system? Yes or No.
Of the 384,734 voters on the list 52% of them cast ballots. The result was that 54.8% said yes. They felt that there should be some changes to term 17.
On October 31, 1995 the Newfoundland House of Assembly passed the resolution to amend term 17. In June 1996 the House of Commons passed the motion. In July 1996, after holding committee meetings from June 18 to July 10, the Senate committee issued its report recommending amendments to the resolution. In August 1996 amendments to the school act and the education act were proclaimed replacing the 37 denominational school boards with 10 interdenominational boards.
When I looked at that and at the population of Newfoundland with 37 denominational school boards it seemed like an onerous system. In Vancouver, Surrey and Richmond, each city has a school board. In essence, we are talking about 1.5 million people in the greater Vancouver area with less than 10 school boards. I would think that perhaps it makes some sense for that to have happened.
In 1996 the Senate voted to amend the resolution. In December 1996 the House of Commons passed the original resolution for a second time. A new Schools Act and Education Act came into force in January 1997.
One thing we have to acknowledge is that Newfoundland has done something that Quebec has yet to do. When Newfoundland decided that it was going to bring these kinds of changes to the school system, whether or not it had the support of the people, it had a referendum. It knew that if it was going to be supported by the people, by the citizens of Newfoundland, that it would have to go out and sell the idea. As I said a little earlier in my comments, 54% of the people of Newfoundland said yes.
What happens is that people challenge and this was no different. After the Schools Act and Education Act came into force there was a challenge to the way the province of Newfoundland was going to administer it. In May 1997 the Catholic and Pentecostal churches issued a statement of claim and application for interlocutory relief in the Newfoundland supreme court. In July 1997 Mr. Justice Leo Barry granted an injunction.
I think it is necessary for us to understand that the injunction was not against amending term 17 but it was against the changes to the Schools Act as a result of the changes to term 17. I would hate to see in Canada that we would feel that a constitution cannot be changed. It is important for me to make the clarification that the courts were not saying we could not change the Constitution. They were merely addressing how the changes to the Constitution were being processed through the Education Act.
Newfoundland, in realizing that there was a problem in its constituency, did another honourable thing. It went back to the people and said that it wanted the people to tell it whether they agreed with what it was trying to do.
In September 1997 Newfoundland put another question to its people which was very clear: Do you support a single school system where all children, regardless of their religious affiliation, attend the same schools where opportunities for religious education and observances are provided, yes or no? The result of that referendum was 73%.
It is very important to use three tests as to whether or not the Constitution should be amended. It is very important if we accept the fact that they are changing a living document which can be amended, to understand or accept whether the people are behind the changes, the people who will be affected by them.
Does the change have the consensus of the population? I think Newfoundland has gone to great lengths to find that consensus and it has met that test.
The second test is whether they are legally able to do that. Something we will see over the next few years is whether there is a consensus that Newfoundland has the right under the law to make those kinds of changes to term 17.
One of the final tests has to be as to whether it is in the national interest. Is the change that is taking place going to be in the best interests of the citizenry? Is it going to protect the minority populations that will be affected by it? Is it going to recognize that sometimes when we do things for one province it has an effect on other provinces in Confederation?
As a country, we must always look at whether this amendment to part of the Constitution which may only affect one province will have any effect on other provinces in a way that would not have the support of the people in the other provinces. Is it going to be a precedent when dealing with constitutional issues down the road? We have to look at the three different areas that might be affected through constitutional change.
I suggest to individuals who are concerned as to whether or not there was a proper consensus of the population, I would like to think that with two resolutions that clearly indicated what the province was intending to do with the support of the majority of the population that they could feel comforted that it did have a consensus. Within the rule of law if there is a problem concerning whether or not there is a legal right, it will be challenged in the courts and it will be decided very clearly.
The third question on national interests is perhaps a little harder to deal with. That is a question we will have to set our minds to. The committee that will be formed by the House of Commons will have to set its mind to the question of whether this is in the national interest.
The amendment that was introduced earlier today by the Leader of the Opposition deals with whether it should be a joint committee and whether the hearings should take place in Newfoundland. It is time the Senate be relegated to the position it is in, a house that has no support because it is unelected. How is it possible for an unelected body to be making these serious recommendations on changing a constitution when it is not accountable to anybody? It is a system that may be outdated and should be looked at being changed, as is term 17 of the Newfoundland school act.
The other issue is whether we can justify dealing with term 17 in Ottawa. How is it possible for the people of Newfoundland to feel they have been taken seriously, that they are being given every opportunity and an equal opportunity to meet with committee members to have their positions heard if they are expected to travel to Ottawa? In this situation the committee should be holding its hearings in Newfoundland where the parents live. The committee should make sure Newfoundlanders have the full opportunity to present their position before the committee.
Once again the government is dealing with a very serious issue, amending the Canadian Constitution, and it has set a deadline. The committee must report back by December 5. When we talk about constitutional matters that have great importance to our country, although I believe it should be a living breathing document, we cannot make decisions in haste without fully reviewing all the aspects of legality, consensus and national interest. I would hope the government would allow ample opportunity for that process to take place before it forces a report back in this House.