Mr. Speaker, we have before us today a bill that I consider extremely technical. It is difficult to relate to this bill on a personal basis, as can be done with Bill C-8 dealing with the Yukon, because it concerns the establishment of certain boards to manage water, land, etc. For this reason, I will stick rather closely to my text.
When I have the opportunity, and because debate on native issues can often be uninspiring and difficult, I like to stimulate and enhance the debate by relating incidents we may have witnessed during our visits. Unfortunately, I have never been in the Mackenzie Valley. Because of the technical content of this bill, I will perhaps stick more closely to my text.
So I am pleased to speak today to Bill C-6 dealing with the establishment of certain boards to provide for an integrated system of land and water management in the Mackenzie Valley, and with consequential amendments to other Acts. This wording is found in several pieces of legislation, including Bill C-8 to amend certains acts, which we discussed earlier.
In other words, Bill C-6 sets up a coordinated and integrated system of land and water management in the Mackenzie Valley. In fact, this bill meets a statutory obligation under the comprehensive land claim agreement with the Gwich'in and with the Sahtu Dene and Metis.
The Gwich'in comprehensive land claim agreement was signed April 22, 1992 and the Sahtu Dene and Metis comprehensive land claim agreement was signed September 6, 1993. I have some concern here about the land claim agreement. In the last Parliament, after the October 1993 election, the House resumed sitting in February and it seems to me that this bill was introduced at that time. The agreement was probably signed on September 6, 1993, but the implementing legislation was most likely introduced in February 1994.
These agreements provide for the establishment of an integrated joint management regime for land and waters in the Mackenzie Valley by establishing three boards. My hon. colleague listed them, but I will repeat anyway: the land use planning board, the Mackenzie Valley land and water board and the environmental impact review board.
As in Bill C-8, in developing legislation to implement agreements, an effort was made to ensure as much as possible that the economic development and environmental aspects are taken care of. As we can see, this bill meets its target in this respect.
These boards will be established as government organizations with their own staff and budget, using government approval procedures and funding terms. A land use planning board will be established in each of the Gwich'in and Sahtu Dene and Metis settlement areas. These will be five member boards. The first nations and the federal and territorial governments will each appoint two members, who, in turn, will appoint a chairperson.
The goal is to have a kind of parity committee, given that the boards are funded in part by the government. This type of parity for committees can be found in several bills. We in the Bloc Quebecois are always inclined to say that this parity should be achieved as early as possible in the process. As a general rule, when the designated members meet, they are supposed to select a chairperson, who will often also be a first nations leader. I think this is a laudable effort.
The boards will have the power develop and review plans as well as propose changes to be made to plans concerning the use of all land outside the area assigned to local administrations and within the designated areas for the entire Mackenzie district. As soon as a plan is approved by a first nation and by the government, it will be used to guide the region's development.
The second board, the Land and Water Board, will consist of 17 members. The permanent regional panels will consist of five members located in each of the Gwitch'in and Sahtu Dene and Metis settlement areas. In addition to these 10 individuals, seven members will be appointed by the government and by the first nations of the three settlement areas located outside these areas.
Once again, the goal is native participation. In this regard, it must be admitted that such participation is a given and is commendable.
The board will have authority for issuing land use permits and water licences with respect to development activities outside the Mackenzie Valley settlement area, or affecting more than one of these areas. The area is fairly specific. It is inhabited by Dene exclusively and there are sub-areas often bearing names related to the Dene culture: Gwitch'in, Deh Cho, Dogrib, names you will often hear, which are significant for the bill before us today.
A permanent regional panel will issue licences according to the needs of the settlement area. This new settlement system will make it possible to implement land claim agreements based on the Northwest Territories Water Act. Before these agreements, certain laws had been put forward by the federal Parliament. These laws will be amended by the bill before the House today.
The agreements will be implemented by means of new land use regulations based on the existing regulations, on the Territorial Lands Act, another law that will be amended by the present bill.
Finally, this bill provides for the creation of the Mackenzie Valley Environmental Impact Review Board. You have to picture the area, which the Mackenzie River cuts right through.
So, whenever an economic development project is implemented, it has an impact on the environment. While the purpose of the bill is to ensure some consistency, it also creates problems. I will explain why in my conclusion.
The environmental impact review board is the counterpart of an economic development agency, which assesses projects from an economic development perspective. So, the Mackenzie Valley environmental impact review board is being established and will consist of 11 members, including a chairperson. Again, the aboriginal community and the government will be equally represented. This is a positive development.
All development activities on the lands and waters of the Mackenzie Valley, including those affecting Indian reservations or lands governed by a settlement with a first nation, will be subject to the environmental impact review and assessment process.
I said earlier that it will create problems, and I will explain why in my conclusion.
Reviews and assessments in the Mackenzie Valley will be conducted primarily through the board and will partly replace measures relating to the Canadian Environmental Assessment Act. Once again, the bill amends an existing act. That board may recommend to the minister responsible for a development activity that a proposed project be rejected or that the environmental and socio-economic conditions in which that activity can proceed be defined.
So it is more than just the environment. The social and economic impact of a development project on the aboriginal peoples will also be considered. So we must admit that we are pleased with this item because the considerations will include not only the environment for aboriginal peoples, but also their economic development and the impact of the project on the community. It is important to assess these, and the bill provides for this.
These boards, the three boards that I have just mentioned, will replace the land and water regulations applied by the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development and by the Northwest Territories Water Board.
The bill provides for a procedure to monitor the cumulative effects—and this also is important—of land and water used on the environment in the Mackenzie Valley, and also for regular independent environmental audits that must be made public. It can happen very often that the immediate environmental impact of an economic development project will be examined, but not the cumulative effect.
I mentioned this earlier. At the time of the gold rush in the Klondike, the immediate impact was not the only concern, but we are now stuck with huge hills of dirt and rocks that were extracted and left behind. This definitely has a very adverse impact on the environment. The impact was immediate and cumulative. So this is a bill that deals with these two concepts and we are pleased with it in that respect.
This could be the job of a board or a department. The Gwich'in and the Sahtu Dene and Metis must play an important role in carrying out these functions. So, I think the famous parity for all boards achieves this objective. I would remind you that there are sub-regions that are not necessarily affected, that have no agreement for the moment; these will be covered by the bill, and this will soon become a problem.
I think it important, particularly because I did so earlier for the Yukon, to situate the Mackenzie Valley for you. It is the part of the Northwest Territories not included in Nunavut. As I said earlier, the Yukon is bordered in the north by Inuvialuit, one of the four Inuit regions in Canada.
Therefore the region we are looking at, which is covered by the bill, runs right alongside Nunavut, which, I remind you, will come into its own in terms of self-government and territorial claims on April 1, 1999. I would like to acknowledge the interim commissioner, who is ensuring a smooth transition. He is our former colleague, Jack Anawak, who was appointed to the position and who is in charge of the entire transition process that will lead to self-government and land claims settlement in Nunavut.
The region affected by the bill before us today is the one immediately adjacent to the Nunavut. It is bordered on the west by Inuvialuit—as has already been said—and by the Yukon, by the Nunavut to the east and the 60th parallel to the south. On the shores of the Mackenzie River are towns that have also been the subject of bills, Fort Norman, Fort Franklin, Norman Wells, Fort Wrigley, Fort Simpson, many regions that are particularly rich in oil.
During the 18th and 19th centuries, these places served both the whites and the Indians as trading posts or winter command posts. There was, of course, no oil exploration, or need for it, at the time. These places were needed instead for the fur trade or as command posts.
The renowned Hudson's Bay Company, for instance, had a trading post at Fort Franklin between 1945 and 1950. A Catholic mission also settled there, in a teepee like construction. Only during the sixties did the Dene settle permanently in Fort Franklin, which they called Deline.
Fort Norman, was also founded as a trading post in 1810, with the aboriginal inspired name of Slavey Tulit's, meaning “mouth of two rivers”. At first, this place was of seasonal importance for the Dene, then became a permanent settlement in 1872. Then, as an undeniable sign of the colonization of the Northwest Territories by westerners, the English in particular, a hewn timber Anglican church was built at Fort Norman. A great tourist attraction, this building is also a sign of the impact of development by the English.
In the 18th century, the Northwest Company, a subsidiary of Imperial Oil Limited, operated there. This company also operated out of Norman Wells on the east bank of the Mackenzie River. It was there that it obtained mining concessions in 1918 and discovered oil in commercial quantities the following year. So it is an area very rich in oil and gas.
The demand for oil from Norman Wells understandably reached its height during World War II. The need for oil was great. Canada and the world were at war. The war machine depended on oil. Their production therefore reached a peak at this time. This was followed, in 1947, by a dramatic drop because the demand was no longer there. Demand went up dramatically later and Imperial and Canada mined these deposits jointly.
Norman Wells is the easternmost point of the Canol pipeline. This pipeline was built during World War II so that the community could ship its top quality light crude, a strategic resource, to the Alaska route and to centres in the south. The oil pipeline that extends from the Northwest Territories to Zama, Alberta, also ends at Norman Wells in the north.
I recall, by the way, discussing the Canol pipeline when we looked at the bill concerning wells at Norman Wells.
As I have tried to show, the Mackenzie Valley is rich in natural resources and in history. It represents an important chapter in the history of relations between Canadians and the native peoples. It seems obvious to me that those settlers bold enough to do business in this area of the country made their fortunes.
I do not want to repeat everything I said about Bill C-8, but it is pretty much the history of Canada all over again. The first settlers arrived, took possession of the land and the resources and made vast fortunes. The native peoples are still stuck on reserves waiting for the day when they will reap the economic benefits. We know that they are practically living like a third world nation, in very difficult socio-economic conditions. It is a shame that a way has never been found to share equitably the wealth generated by the multinationals and by Canada.
Was this done at the expense of the native peoples? I have just told you that it was. That is the big question. Naturally, there are grey areas. Some people blame the multinationals or the Canadian government, while others argue it is the fault of the native people for refusing to assume their responsibilities. But there is no denying that the socio-economic conditions of native peoples are far inferior to those of all other Canadians.
So even if this needs to be qualified, we believe that this great epic did not always benefit aboriginal peoples. It did very often benefit Canadians who struck it rich, but at the expense of aboriginal lifestyles.
A number of Canadians settled in the Mackenzie Valley and spread their culture there. Many Indians also live there. There are first nations, including the Dene in certain subregions, who are extremely proud of their subregion and who have been living in these areas since time immemorial. There are, among others, the Gwitch'in, the Sahtu Dene and Metis, the Deh Cho and the Dogrib, all subregions of the Greater Mackenzie Valley where aboriginal peoples have shaped Canadian culture through their ancient aboriginal heritage. They have also preserved their culture.
The information we have today on the aboriginals living in the valley is still incomplete. However, observations made by western explorers and traders who travelled through this area confirm that the Dene nation split into three cultural groups: the eastern group, which includes the Yellow Knives, the Dogribs and the Hares, the Slaveys, the Chipewyan and the Beaver; the southwest group that includes the Nahane, the Sekani, the Babine and the Carriers; the northwest group that includes the Kutchin, the Loucheux, the Ahtena and the Khotana.
We can see that in the Dene culture, there are also subcultures, and these people inhabit areas in the Mackenzie Valley covered by this bill.
The word Dene comes from one of the main language groups, the Athapascans, who spread out across Canada, from the Rocky Mountains to Hudson's Bay. In fact, I have in my office a lovely map representing the 50 aboriginal languages still being used across Canada. I must say that Athapaskan is indeed a widely used aboriginal language and one of the main aboriginal languages in Canada.
Incidentally—if I may open a brief parenthesis here—the retention level of these languages is probably better in Quebec than in the rest of Canada. In fact, statistics show that language retention is better among natives in Quebec than elsewhere in Canada. I will close this parenthesis by saying that 50 languages is not insignificant; it goes to show how rich the aboriginal culture is.
The Athapaskans came up with a word that is both very simple and very rich to describe any human being, male or female, any individual or people, including themselves: Dene.
Recently, this word was given a narrower meaning in the political arena. It has become identified with the first nation settled in Denendeh, in the Deh Cho Valley—the Mackenzie Valley—also called Dehogà by the K'ahsho got'ine. In the Dene language, earth, the land, is called “ndeh” or “nne”, hence Denendeh, the land of the people, of the Dene.
I know the parliamentary debates translation team will no doubt be calling my office, as they did after my speech on Bill C-8, but we must keep the aboriginal names. I find it important to keep repeating these names in this House so that we do not forget the great aboriginal culture. I think it is only doing them justice to mention these peoples' names. I also appreciate that it is not easy to keep track for those recording our proceedings. I can assure them of my full co-operation in providing them with any information they might need after I conclude my remarks.
According to the writings of Father Morice, aboriginal nations in the Mackenzie Valley lived off fishing and caribou hunting. They also trapped. Their means of transportation were, and still are, canoes in the summer and snowshoes or dogsleds in the winter. With whatever they hunt or trap, they make toboggans, clothes, including mittens and coats, and fish nets.
In fact, when I visited the neighbouring region, where the Dene influence is also noticeable, I was impressed by the beautiful and warm mitts, coats, moccasins and clothes that are made and decorated in the great aboriginal cultural tradition of that region of the country.
Since the early days of colonization, relations between the Dene and westerners have always been marked by struggles for territorial ownership. These disputes concern Canadians, who are not very familiar with their object and primary cause. In fact, conflicts occur when the government does not consult aboriginal peoples regarding the development and disposal of their lands. The problem is not a new one: it has always existed.
The disputes essentially relate to the fact that aboriginals and westerners do not share the same vision of the world. Their values are different and often opposed. Let me give you an example.
We westerners have a tendency to say that the land belongs to us. We set boundaries, we mark out the lands we buy in the cities and in the country. In aboriginal culture, the land belongs to everyone. This major philosophical difference has often generated problems. The solution is, of course, to establish the kind of relationship that will benefit both cultures.
It must be realized that, for the first settlers and for the immigrants who followed them, Canada represented an opportunity for a new life. But in the case of aboriginal people, their lives would never be the same. In precolonial times the aboriginal people were autonomous and independent, with their own political system, their own social system, their own educational system. Afterward, they saw their property and their lands slip from their control. A number of historians and ethnologists feel that Canada's prosperity in the north was achieved at the expense of the Indians, as I have already said.
Colonization concentrated initially on the agricultural lands of the south. The resource-rich lands were, however, exploited almost as soon as they were discovered, for instance the treaty 8 and treaty 11 lands in this particular region. Gold was discovered in the Klondike in 1896, and the gold rush began. That is what prompted Canada to sign treaty No. 8 with the Dene, who were opposed to prospectors and miners coming through their territory.
I referred to Voisey Bay when I was speaking on Bill C-8. The same thing is still happening today. We arrive, we explore, we find huge deposits, and we move into lands that have always been inhabited by aboriginal nations as if they were our own. We churn out millions of dollars without any concern for fairness, for paying back part of it in the form of royalties, at least to the aboriginal people.
The treaty was signed in particular because of the 1920 discovery of oil deposits at Norman Wells in the Mackenzie Basin. We can see the spirit behind the treaties, that they were mutual agreements. From the moment that wealth was discovered, there was an interest in signing treaties in order to avoid problems. However, when there was no wealth, we left people alone.
Canada put a lot of effort into trying to convince the Indians that signing Treaty No. 8 and Treaty No. 11 would mean no encroachment on lands and no meddling in their life, which was based on hunting, fishing and trapping. As I said, the signing of Treaty No. 8 and Treaty No. 11 has to be seen in the context of the political and economic events of the time that were shaping Canada's future. These treaties came about as a result of the Klondike gold rush between 1896 and 1898 and of the development by both individuals and businesses of resources like oil and gas, which we looked at earlier in connection with Bill C-8. These events created a very fevered climate.
The Indians, furious at the damage to their economy and the fires in their forests—people did not bother to cut down trees, the forest was simply burned so mining equipment could be brought in—reacted strongly to the invasion of their lands. In June 1898, the Indians around Fort St. John refused to allow police and miners onto their land until a treaty was concluded. The government felt that a treaty had to be concluded with them on their rights to the land.
The treaty commissioners met the Cree and the Dene, who owned 324,900 square kilometres from northern Saskatchewan, Alberta and British Columbia to south of Hay River and of Great Slave Lake in the Northwest Territories. Under Treaty No. 8, the crown continued its policy of offering benefits to Indians who allowed settlers to move onto their land.
This treaty includes the usual clauses on the surrender and transfer of land in exchange for government protection, although the commissioners did not discuss these clauses with the northern aboriginal population. There were no discussions, these clauses were simply applied. So these are the infamous clauses referred to as the extinguishing clauses.
The negotiations went on for many months, and as can often be seen throughout the history of Canada, these negotiations show a lack of understanding by officials of the conditions laid down by the Cree and Dene nations. When these treaties were negotiated, the commissioners did not explain clearly to the first nations the meaning of the concepts of surrender and transfer contained in these documents.
For the Indians, any talks on these lands were based on the assumption that they would keep what they considered to be sufficient land in their respective areas, while allowing newcomers to share them.
As I said earlier, while according to western philosophy the land must be owned by someone, according to aboriginal philosophy, the land belongs to everyone.
Many nations thought they were signing peace and friendship treaties, not land transfer treaties. It is also unlikely that, in their eagerness to close these deals quickly, commissioners spent very much time explaining the concept of land transfer in any great detail.
What I am saying has been faithfully reported in the report of the royal commission on aboriginal peoples.
In a word, the concepts and principles of land transfer contained in these two treaties reflect a different reality, depending on whether one is an aboriginal or a Canadian. No sooner were the treaties signed that the authorities started passing legislation and drafting regulations limiting the fishing, hunting and trapping activities of the aboriginal peoples, which is exactly what they had been afraid of. As a result of these measures, the Dene were condemned to live in poverty and the very foundation of their economy was undermined, while the newcomers on the land benefited and continue to benefit from the godsend that the natural resources in the Mackenzie Valley truly are.
Ownership of the land and resources covered by Treaty No. 8 and Treaty No. 11 has given rise to lengthy discussions on politics and economics, court challenges, comprehensive claims and an inquiry, the one conducted by Mr. Justice Berger.
I find it important to give an overview of the purpose of the two agreements. The bill before us today stems from two agreements, one concerning the Dene settlements on Sahtu land and the other concerning the Gwich'in.
If we pay attention to the way the agreements are worded, we can see that the purpose of both the Gwich'in and the Sahtu comprehensive agreements are identical. It is worthwhile taking a closer look.
The Dene, Metis and Gwich'in people of Canada negotiated the agreement with the following objectives in mind: first, to clearly define the right to own and to use the land and its resources; second, to confer the rights and benefits set out in the agreement in exchange for waiving certain claims which the Dene, Metis and Gwich'ins have, in any part of Canada, by treaty or otherwise. That is the famous extinguishing clause I referred to earlier.
Third, to recognize and promote the way of life of the Dene, Metis and Gwich'in, which is based on their cultural and economic relations with the land. For them, the land is something that belongs to everyone. So, this treaty attempts to reconcile the two philosophies.
Fourth, to promote self-sufficiency for the Sahtu Dene, Metis and Gwich'in, and to recognize their ability to fully participate in all aspects of economic life. They want to move away from the infamous Indian Act. They want a land base with adequate resources to ensure their own economic autonomy.
Fifth, to grant specific benefits, including allowances, lands and other economic benefits, to the Dene, Metis and Gwich'in. Sixth, to grant to the Dene, Metis and Gwich'in rights regarding wildlife harvesting, as well as the right to take part in the decisions relating to wildlife management and to hunting, in accordance with aboriginal culture.
Seventh, to give to the Dene, Metis and Gwich'in the right to take part in the decisions on the use, management and conservation of land, water and resources. The bill before us today applies specifically to this part.
Eighth, to protect and to preserve wildlife and the environment in the region covered to the settlement, for the benefit of present and future generations. Another cultural trait of aboriginal people is that they often think of future generations. Mohawks, among others, often speak of the seventh generation. In other words, their current decisions are based on the fact that the seventh generation must also benefit from them.
Finally, to guarantee to the Dene and Metis the possibility of signing agreements on self-government. These changes are being negotiated and could become reality in the days and months to come.
The Dene, who live in the south of that territory, continue to consider Treaty No. 8 and Treaty No. 11 as the legal and political basis of their relations with Canada. It is the same everywhere. People say there have always been problems regarding the implementation of these two treaties, and there are still problems today.
They want to review the original treaties and interpret them. At the time, in certain numbered treaties, there was a reference to providing a medical kit. Today, aboriginal peoples feel they are entitled to full medical services. And the government is rejecting this wholly or in part.
So, aboriginal peoples would like to see effect given to Treaty No. 8 and Treaty No. 11.
This brings me finally to the position of the Bloc Quebecois.