Mr. Speaker, as indicated by my colleague, we will be supporting the bill in principle but with some very serious reservations and concerns that have to be addressed.
I will comment on some of the remarks made by a previous speaker, but first I welcome the debate initiated by the solicitor general. I take him at his word that he wants to ensure a detailed analysis of the legislation because it is crucial legislation. As my colleague has already indicated, we are trying to find a balance between information that can be vitally important to both the police and prosecution services and at the same time protecting the civil rights and liberties of individuals.
I look forward to debate on the retention of DNA samples. The solicitor general indicated there were compelling arguments on both sides at the current time. My own feeling would be that retention causes real problems. I look forward to that debate in the House as well.
I would be remiss if I did not also comment on the remarks of the hon. member for Blackstrap who indicated that the bill did not go far enough for his party. I respect his opinion on that. I can see we will have lively debate when the bill comes before the committee.
He quoted some information from the United States. Again with the greatest of respect I am very cautious of that kind of information because our systems are so different in many situations.
I appreciate when he says we should err, if we must err, on the side of victims and not criminals and therefore their support to take the DNA samples at the time of the charge. I remind my colleague, as I am sure he is aware, there is no criminal until such time as a court determines guilt. At the time individual are charged they are the accused.
At that time the person we are calling the victim is the accuser. If I come before a court and say that the hon. member has done something to me, at that time I am not a victim and he is not a criminal. At that time I am the accuser and he is the accused. As I indicated we will have a lively debate on that aspect of the bill.
It has been stated that an opportunity has been presented to find that balance and I think we will. History is fraught with examples of situations where societies and communities felt they had the answer to solving crime problems and investigative tools, only to be proven down the road that scientific evidence was not as accurate as we might have hoped and that many innocent people suffered as a result of what society thought was the perfect test for guilt.
We must approach this kind of scientific information with some scepticism because it deserves to be treated carefully and critically.
Certain sections of the bill require real examination. As the solicitor general indicated, many groups made presentations to him. Many groups opposed the legislation. Among them were the Canadian Association of Sexual Assault Centres, the Elizabeth Fry Society, the National Action Committee on the Status of Women, and women's organizations like the Feminist Alliance on New Reproductive and Genetic Technologies. Several other groups felt the legislation was not necessarily the best way to use government funds. As indicated previously civil liberties associations had real concerns about the legislation.
I can point to specific examples in the legislation where I think the solicitor general and the government have gone too far, or sections that require very careful consideration and debate. Clause 7, as my colleague has indicated, provides for tremendous discretion on the part of the commissioner to provide access to information about an individual's DNA index to other groups.
The very taking of the DNA samples is questionable. Why would we do it automatically instead of perhaps suggesting that an application be made by the prosecution or by the defence? Certainly there are benefits to the accused. Why should an application not be made to the judge hearing the case who could then exercise his or her discretion accordingly with procedural safeguards for the civil liberties of the individual charged? The automatic taking of the sample is something I have some problems with.
Clause 10 which provides for further testing if there are new developments is fraught with real problems. On the storing of the substances which has been referred to, especially the storing and keeping of the substances when an individual is pardoned, when a higher court overturns a conviction, I think we must ask the question why we would keep the substances once an individual is determined to be innocent of the crime. Then the sample ought not to have been collected in the first place. Why we would continue to keep that index and the information derived from the samples is something we have to look at very carefully.
The application to young offenders and the keeping of the samples for 10 years is a portion of the legislation we have to look at very critically. As well we should look at the offences to which the taking of DNA samples will apply.
Those concerns will demand very real examination in committee. As I have indicated, the NDP will support the bill in principle at this point and will certainly support referring it to committee.
However, if I can summarize, a number of issues need to be addressed such as the indefinite period of keeping the DNA on file; the inclusion of young offenders in the act, in every single portion of the act, to be treated the same way as adults; the issue of who has access to the DNA databank and how the information may be used; the fact that the DNA may be taken even while a case is under appeal or kept while the case is under appeal; and the taking of DNA be mandatory upon conviction rather than at the discretion of the judiciary.
I cannot stress that enough. I feel very strongly about that point. I am willing to listen to other arguments and debate, but it is something we have to be very careful about.
The fact that a person can be detained for a reasonable amount of time for the taking of the samples, as opposed to a clearly defined period of time during which the samples could be taken, requires consideration. Who will be taking the samples? Will it be a member of the police force or a trained individual?
Another very real question that has to be addressed is the funding formula and the costs of establishing the DNA databank. Who will pay for it? Obviously the commissioner will be a member of the RCMP. The RCMP will have a huge influence on the way the legislation is dealt with. All those questions deserve very careful consideration.
As I have indicated I look forward to the debate. I think it will be lively. I especially look forward to the comments of the next speaker, the hon. member for Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough. He is a former prosecutor. I am a former defence counsel. The two of us worked in the same province. We did not have the opportunity to lock horns in the courtrooms of Nova Scotia, but I look forward to our debate in committee.