Debates of Nov. 17th, 1997

Foreign Affairs

[Deborah Grey, Reform, Edmonton North, AB]

Mr. Speaker, while our two great allies, Britain and the U.S., are mobilizing warships this Prime Minister is mobilizing cocktail receptions with Iraqi officials. Last week our Prime Minister was actually defending Canadian business invitations to Saddam. He said “If you want to sell you have to have contact first”.

Contact? Who wants contact with a man who gassed thousands of Kurdish dissidents with chemical weapons? What kind of contact with the butcher of Bagdhad would the government find acceptable?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the government finds completely unacceptable the conduct of Saddam Hussein and his regime. We insist that the Iraqi regime allow the UN inspectors back, including those of American origin, to carry out their job pursuant to the UN resolutions without reservation.

In so far as there is any matter of exports to Iraq, the government's position, as is the Prime Minister's position, is that these must meet completely Canadian law and UN resolutions. How can the Reform Party object to that?

[Deborah Grey, Reform, Edmonton North, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the Reform Party objects to that because it completely sends the wrong signal to our allies. That is what we are talking about right now. Any business deal with Iraq, even under the name of so-called non-military business, undermines any allied action.

The UN weapons inspectors must have full access in Iraq and Saddam's bullying must end, but our government is actually helping Saddam's image and harming our allied cause. Again, why on earth is the Prime Minister supporting trade with the likes of Saddam Hussein?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister is not supporting trade. All he said was that our rules and the UN rules have to be respected. I do not see why the Reform Party would oppose that.

Furthermore, if the Reform Party is saying that the UN inspectors must be allowed in, all it is doing is agreeing with what we have already said, and it is about time.

[Deborah Grey, Reform, Edmonton North, AB]

Mr. Speaker, this is unbelievable. In defiance of UN sanctions, Saddam continues to develop chemical and biological weapons, nuclear weapons and missile technology. Yet the government says that it is okay, that it does not have a problem with that.

Our Prime Minister said that these acceptable trade items are okay because they are okay with the UN. Let us talk about trucks and medical supplies. They can be used for military purposes and military personnel as well. Our government knows it; Saddam Hussein knows it.

Is there no dictator too dirty for the government to do business with?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member completely misstates the government's position. The government has never said that it supports Iraq's development of biological weapons. It totally rejects that. It stands firm with the other countries of the UN in saying that Iraq must back down and accept UN inspection without reservation.

I say to the hon. member that type of misleading comment, perhaps not intentional, totally weakens the ability of this Parliament to send a strong signal to Saddam Hussein that his misdeeds are unacceptable. It is about time that she supported our position against Saddam Hussein.

Airbus

[Jack Ramsay, Reform, Crowfoot, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the Liberal government desperately wants the Airbus scandal to go away but is unable to sweep it under the rug.

Yesterday former Prime Minister Brian Mulroney accused the government of a high level cover-up. In the face of this very serious accusation, will the Prime Minister stand and state today unequivocally that former Prime Minister Brian Mulroney is lying?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I have more respect for Parliament and the institution of prime minister than to use the language suggested by the hon. member.

I do want to say that the minutes of settlement signed on behalf of Brian Mulroney say that the parties accept that the RCMP, on its own, initiated the Airbus investigation. The parties have always acknowledged that the RCMP must continue investigating any allegations of illegality or wrongdoing brought to its attention.

This is what Brian Mulroney's lawyers signed for him. These words—

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Crowfoot.

[Jack Ramsay, Reform, Crowfoot, AB]

Mr. Speaker, everyone from the prime minister to the former justice minister to the commissioner of the RCMP has told Canadians that Staff Sergeant Fiegenwald is the only individual responsible for the Airbus scandal.

Yet they allowed him to walk away without a hearing and without the determination of guilt. I ask the prime minister is this because it forms part of a high level government cover-up?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, there is no cover-up here. The arrangement between Mr. Fiegenwald and the RCMP was, as far as I am aware, entered into voluntarily by Mr. Fiegenwald with the RCMP.

That is something involving the internal disciplinary process of the RCMP under the RCMP Act. As far as I am aware, ministers have no role in that process.

Iraq

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, over the past few days, a potential conflict has been growing in the Persian Gulf between Iraq and the international community.

The Prime Minister said in Hanoi last week on this matter that he was not ruling out support for the American option, that is, armed intervention.

Could the Deputy Prime Minister clarify the remarks of the Prime Minister and tell us clearly the government's position on the growing conflict between Iraq and the United States?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, according to my information, the conflict is between Iraq and all of the UN countries, including Canada. We totally oppose Iraq's position, and demand that Iraq again allow United Nations' inspectors into the country to do their work.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, we agree the inspectors should be able to do their work. That goes without saying.

But I would like the Deputy Prime Minister to tell us whether he agrees with the more radical approach of armed intervention advocated by the United States or supports finding a peaceful solution, such as increased economic sanctions against Iraq?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, at this point, according to my sources, the issue of an armed intervention is hypothetical. We have joined with the other UN countries in demanding that Iraq allow the inspectors back into the country to carry out their work according to the UN resolutions.

Canada Post

[Réjean Lefebvre, Bloc, Champlain, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Labour.

Last Thursday, the Postal Workers Union presented Canada Post with a new offer in which they reduced their wage claims. In response, Canada Post representatives left the bargaining table.

Could the Minister of Labour remind Canada Post that such actions are in no one's interest and that they must return immediately to the bargaining table to come to an agreement with the union?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Minister of Labour]

Mr. Speaker, I can assure my hon. colleague that is exactly what we do want, a collective agreement. We want both sides to go back to the table, as I understand they are now at the table.

I encourage them to work together for a collective agreement that will be better for Canada Post, CUPW and the people of Canada.

[Réjean Lefebvre, Bloc, Champlain, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to remind the Minister that the same bargaining agents were there in 1995 and that an agreement was reached. In 1995, a negotiated agreement was signed.

Why are Canada Post representatives leaving the bargaining table this time around when an agreement is still possible? Is it because they are sure that the government will intervene and legislate them back to work?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Minister of Labour]

Mr. Speaker, as I indicated, we have used every process possible in order to make sure that we would come up with a collective agreement.

This government wants an agreement that will be better for the post office, for the union and for the people of Canada.

The Environment

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of the Environment.

Canadians have watched this federal Liberal government shift its ground again and again on greenhouse gas emissions. Now we finally know where the prime minister stands, peering out from behind Bill Clinton.

The government's latest Kyoto position is not good enough. It is not good enough for the Canadians who have written letters and petitions and it is not good enough for the future of the planet.

My question to the Minister of the Environment is simple. Is this pathetic Kyoto position good enough for her?

[Christine Stewart, Liberal, Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, at this point the federal government has not announced targets and time lines because we are playing a very important role in Canada and internationally to bring together parties so that we can achieve a success in Kyoto.

As a matter of fact, we have worked as no other government before has worked with all parties, all partners, provinces, territories, business and municipalities to try to come to a consensus about what our Canadian position should be.

We had significant success at our meeting with environment and energy ministers in Regina last week.

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, it does not take an atmospheric researcher to know the difference between a 13% increase and a 20% decrease in greenhouse gas emissions.

It is this Liberal government that has failed to live up to the Rio agreement. It is this Liberal government that has failed to live up to its own red book promise and now it cannot even live up to the commitment made by the prime minister less than a month ago.

Canadians are proud to be ranked on most matters among the best in the world. On this issue they are ranked among the worst in the world. Is that good enough for this energy minister?

[Christine Stewart, Liberal, Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, this government is committed to a successful agreement in Kyoto in order to reduce greenhouse gasses. The environment and the issue of climate change are extremely important to the government and we are working nationally and internationally to have a good agreement.

There are other parties in this country who have not contributed in a positive way to make sure that we deal with the fundamental problem of climate change in Canada and around the world.

Canada Pension Plan

[Jean Charest, Progressive Conservative, Sherbrooke, QC]

Mr. Speaker, we have been told by the office of the information commissioner that Bill C-2, the legislation setting up the Canada pension plan investment board, does not subject the board to the Access to Information Act.

I would like to know from the Minister of Finance whether this is an oversight in the legislation or whether this is a deliberate decision taken from the government to avoid the board's having to put up with the scrutiny of the Canadian public.

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, I want to congratulate the leader of the Conservative Party for having raised this issue which was discussed in the House almost a month ago.

The fact is the CPP investment board will operate as any other pension fund. It will be totally transparent, reports will be made on a regular basis. As the hon. member knows, certain of its deliberations will be in secret. Obviously there will be confidential matters and because we want it to operate as regular pension fund—