Mr. Speaker, another department, Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, has always had considerable influence on soil and water management in rural Quebec, for example through programs for land drainage, water course excavation, grain crop development and dairy and swine production. In the early 1990s, this department turned to sustainable development by focusing more on resource conservation, soil degradation and erosion, and reducing underground water and ground water pollution by pesticides, fertilizers, manure and effluent.
It can be clearly seen that, even in the absence of federal standards, Quebec and several Canadian provinces are not leaving this field uncontrolled, nor are the various independent bodies studying the various facets of the issue and advising governments, departments and municipalities on management techniques and improvements to be made to the regulations in place.
Finally, the Government of Canada has certain powers available to it for intervention in the environmental field, in agriculture, fisheries and the protection of navigable waters.
We are not fools, however. Since the government cannot intervene directly in water management, it is going through the Department of Health to get a foot in the door. It does this, of course, in the name of public health. This is the only way it can interfere once again in a field that does not belong to it. It would have been presumptuous to intervene directly given that the provinces would have reacted and criticized this additional meddling by the federal government.
Under section 109 of the Constitution Act, 1982, formerly section 108 of the British North America Act of 1867, ownership of lands and natural resources belongs to the provincial crown. The power of Quebec and all other Canadian provinces to establish legislation on water and other environmental matters derives from this right of ownership.
This is why the federal government's intervention in the area of drinking water through Bill C-14 comes to us from the Department of Health and not from Environment Canada. Even though health too is a matter of provincial jurisdiction, the federal government has always felt free to intervene, program after program and national standard after national standard, in this area of jurisdiction clearly attributed in the Constitution to the provinces.
Last Tuesday, the Minister of Health accused us of being opposed to safe water and common health standards for all Canadians. That is totally wrong. We all want to be on the side of the angels. Who would not want our drinking water to be safe? No one, either in Canada or in Quebec, wants to eliminate basic public health criteria. The minister, the Prime Minister and everyone in the federal government are all fully aware of this.
What is sad is this impression, this feeling of superiority or lack of trust in the provinces, this notion that, if the federal government does not look after the problem, nobody will, this idea that there are some things that are too important or too complicated for mere provinces to deal with without screwing up.
This typical federal government attitude is what lies behind many of the rules, politely referred to as “national guidelines”, imposed on the provinces. The impression is given that, especially in Quebec, people are just waiting for certain guidelines to be dropped to dismantle the health system, when it is very well known that Quebec has always been a leader in the public health sector.
The recent examples of home care and drug plans, which were introduced by Quebec and which the federal government is now trying to imitate, are a clear indication that the provinces have nothing to learn from the federal government when it comes to the administration of health care, any more than they do in other areas coming under their jurisdiction.
But if we are to believe the government, everything would be in a mess if there were no national guidelines. So it is taking no chances and Bill C-14 contains a reference to national guidelines.
Clause 5, under the National Drinking Water Directives , reads as follows:
5.(1) In order to encourage the provision of quality drinking water throughout Canada, the Minister may, after having consulted the provinces, establish national guidelines respecting a ) the concentrations of organisms, organic and inorganic substances and radionuclides, naturally occurring or otherwise, in drinking water; b ) the physical and chemical properties of drinking water; c ) the aesthetic characteristics of drinking water; d ) the methods for analysing drinking water; and e ) the collection, treatment, storage and distribution of water destined to be used by humans for drinking or for washing the body.
Merely reading this clause is enough to clearly see that the stated goal of simply regulating “materials that come into contact with or are used to treat water destined for human consumption” is largely exceeded.
The concentrations of organisms, the physical and chemical properties of water, its aesthetic characteristics, the methods for analyzing drinking water: all this is far from the definition of “drinking water material” found in clause 2 and which reads as follows: a ) any device or article manufactured, sold or represented for use in modifying the composition, characteristics or properties of water destined to be used by humans for drinking— b ) reads: b ) any chemical or biological substance, or any organism, manufactured, sold or represented as a means—for modifying the composition, characteristics or properties of water destined to be used by humans for drinking or for washing the body—
I could go into more detail but, in short, the provisions deal with devices, chemical substances manufactured and sold to be added to water, replacement parts, etc. Nowhere does it say that Bill C-14 is intended to regulate the colour, odour or any other physical or chemical property of drinking water as stipulated in clause 5.
In addition, the Minister of Health was categorical in his response to questions from the Bloc Quebecois about the purpose and scope of Bill C-14. He said, and I quote: “What the bill does is regulate a matter entirely within federal jurisdiction; that is to say, standards for the manufacture, sale and use of mechanisms and equipment used in connection with the transporting of drinking water.”
Manufacture, sale and use of products used in connection with the transporting of water, but nothing about national guidelines respecting the colour, chemical composition and physical properties of water as stated in clause 5 of the bill. If that is not doublespeak, I wonder what is.
About the inspectors, and I agree with my colleague from the Reform Party on this, Bill C-14 also contains a clause on the enforcement of the bill's provisions. It provides for the appointment of inspectors, once again duplicating what already exists in the field.
Not only is this duplication, the powers conferred on inspectors are very broad. At clause 17.(1), the bill states:
If the conditions for obtaining a warrant under section 487 of the Criminal Code exist in respect of the commission of an offence under this act but by reason of exigent circumstances it would not be feasible to obtain the warrant, an inspector who is accompanied by a peace officer may exercise the powers of search and seizure provided in that section without a warrant.
You will understand that, as the inspector would be accompanied by a peace officer, one can wonder why the inspector, and not the peace officer, should be the one authorized to exercise these powers without a warrant. Who will decide where and when to act? Who will determine that it is appropriate or necessary to obtain a warrant? Peace officers are trained to make this type of decision, and they do so under very strict and clear rules. As for Bill C-14, it is definitely not clear in this area.
When they talk about consultations, they seem to imply that an agreement has been reached. This is not an agreement, this is a consultation. In addition to the interference, the double talk and the lack of clarity surrounding Bill C-14, there is the government's casual attitude in saying: “We have consulted everyone, we have responded to the provinces' requests and we have the agreement of all the provinces to go forward with this bill.” As with jurisdictions and national standards, the facts are not as simple as the minister would have us believe.
In fact, there has been no political agreement between the federal government and the Government of Quebec on the management of drinking water.
On this point, the Minister of Health, for whom I have tremendous respect, went quite far in this House by quoting during question period a letter from Quebec's deputy minister of health dated May 1996 which, according to him, confirmed Quebec's approval of the bill at that time.
In fact, he read only one sentence, taking it completely out of context and going against the spirit of the letter. He quoted Quebec's deputy minister of health as saying: “As far as protecting public health is concerned, we therefore have no objections to this bill going forward—”
Yet, in that same letter, it was clearly stated that agreement for such a project, which involves provincial jurisdiction over natural resources, had to come not from the Department of Health but from the Department of the Environment and Wildlife, which is in fact responsible for the management of drinking water. But the Minister of Health was very careful not to read that part.
Why? Why make such a statement that support has been granted, by misquoting a letter he knew we would receive? In short, why trumpet that everyone, including Quebec, supported the bill when this is not the case at all?
But one thing that is certain is that Quebec did not give its agreement on this issue. There has never been any, nor will there be because, as has already been said, Quebec has become far more aware of the need to take control over everything concerning water, its transport, its processing, its use, in short every facet of that resource.
To summarize, drinking water falls under the jurisdiction of the Government of Quebec and we are looking after it.
In conclusion, I would like to inform you that Bill C-14 is inappropriate and must not be passed. There is already too much duplication, too much encroachment, too much interference in areas where, most of the time, provinces already have their own legislation. Is there any need for another piece of legislation?
I would like to tell you that the bottom of the river is federal, but the water flowing in it is provincial. Fish are federal until they are out of the water, then they become provincial. Launches are federally registered, but constructed according to provincial standards, of course in keeping with federal safety regulations. The shores are provincial, but the ports are federal property.
With this bill, drinking water would be a provincial jurisdiction, whereas its physical and chemical properties, as well as the materials to carry it, would become a federal jurisdiction. There is something absurd in all of this.
Recently, in a Throne Speech, the government made a commitment to no longer interfere in areas of provincial jurisdiction without provincial agreement. No one really believed this. Fortunately not, because once again the federal government is showing us what it means by good management and respect for jurisdictions as far as the environment is concerned. They want to harmonize the laws and regulations, but the words were barely out of their mouths before they intervened with legislation on environmental protection, the oceans, endangered species, and now Bill C-14 with all its implications.
It encroaches on three areas of provincial jurisdiction, namely health, natural resources and the environment. It dictates national standards on the quality of drinking water. It creates new duplication in drinking water quality control. It is not subject to provincial approval and was never approved by Quebec.
For all these reasons, each sufficient in itself, the Bloc Quebecois cannot support this bill in any way.
Mr. Speaker, I would now like to table an amendment. I move:
That the motion be amended by deleting all the words after the word “That” and substituting the following:
“this House declines to give second reading to Bill C-14, An Act respecting the safety and effectiveness of materials that come into contact with or are used to treat water destined for human consumption, because it does not because it does not take into account provincial jurisdiction over natural resources and health.”