Debates of Nov. 19th, 1997

Taxation

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, in the 1997 budget the government brought in $2 billion worth of tax relief. We brought in tax relief for students. We brought in tax relief for the physically disabled. We brought in tax relief for poor families with children.

The real issue before the Canadian people is why the Reform Party opposed that tax relief to Canadians.

Canada Post

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday the minister responsible for the Canada Post Corporation said we should be pleased because negotiations had resumed between the two sides. Later in the evening, while the union announced that talks had officially resumed, Canada Post officials were saying that negotiations had broken down. We also know that a rather disgraceful incident took place yesterday.

Can the minister responsible for the Canada Post Corporation tell the House what has happened since yesterday to make things go sour?

[Alfonso Gagliano, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, first we deplore the incident that occurred late last night.

This morning, I asked the chairman of Canada Post to provide me with a report, which I received around noon. From now on, the corporation's director of labour relations, Raymond Poirier, will lead the employer's negotiating team.

As for the negotiations, efforts are currently being made to get the process under way again. Just before the incident, yesterday, negotiations were going ahead. I hope they can be resumed this afternoon.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, what happened yesterday is that while the union was announcing that negotiations were resuming, management was refusing to answer the telephone, to talk to journalists and to discuss with the union.

Could the minister convey a message to his new negotiator and tell him to stop these delaying tactics, to sit down and to negotiate in good faith for once?

[Alfonso Gagliano, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, I believe the two sides negotiated continuously for over 24 hours.

Yesterday, in the evening, an incident which we deplore took place. Since this morning, efforts are being made to get the two sides back to the table.

I hope that by the end of the day they can go back to the table and negotiate. The government's objective is to have a negotiated collective agreement.

[Réjean Lefebvre, Bloc, Champlain, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the minister responsible for Canada Post.

Since August, the minister responsible for Canada Post has been warning the union that special legislation would be brought in if there was a strike. This week again, the minister said that the union's tough stand would result in the privatization of Canada Post.

Will the minister admit that by promising back to work legislation in the event of a strike, he is guaranteeing the employer's bad faith and making it impossible to bargain in good faith?

[Alfonso Gagliano, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, I never promised back to work legislation or privatization, on the contrary.

What I have been saying since last week, since there has been the possibility of a strike or lock-out, is that right now Canada Post is losing in excess of $10 million daily.

Clearly, if this goes on for several weeks, we will then have a very serious situation on our hands and tough action will be necessary. The government will assume its responsibilities.

[Réjean Lefebvre, Bloc, Champlain, QC]

Mr. Speaker, does the minister not see that his obvious bias in favour of the employer is making him the leading cause of the present breakdown in negotiations?

[Alfonso Gagliano, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, I am the minister responsible for Canada Post. My responsibility is to make sure that all Canadians receive the best postal service possible.

That is therefore what I am doing and I hope that the opposition parties will be able to work with the government and ask either the union or Canada Post to return to the bargaining table and work out a contract.

Pharmaceuticals

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Industry.

By the year 2000 Canadians will have paid over $600 million extra for their prescription drugs, a penalty imposed on Canadians because the government caved in to the multinational drug lobby.

For 18 months the industry minister has kept reports of these extra secret costs while the minister whispers sweet nothings about a national pharmacare program.

Could the industry minister explain why the government always sides with the big multinationals instead of taking care of people who need drugs, the poor and the sick?

[John Manley, Liberal, Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, the drug patent policy is a controversial one. It was reviewed by a committee of the House of Commons during the past winter.

The purpose of the policy, from our point of view, is quite simple. We will respect our international commitments under the WTO to give 20 year patent protection for intellectual property, not just for drugs but for all intellectual property.

We will try to endeavour to ensure that the moment the patent protection ends mechanisms will be in place to ensure that alternative drugs are there.

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, the intervention of the government and the minister into the work of the parliamentary committee was a disgrace to democracy.

Canadians are paying heavily with their health and with their pocketbooks for the minister's refusal to overhaul our drug patent laws.

Will the government make it a priority to look after the weakest members of our society instead of siding with the multinationals which contribute to the coffers of the governing party? Or, did the minister take an oath to serve the interests of the multinational drug companies instead of the Canadian people?

[John Manley, Liberal, Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, I am surprised the question is in order, but I think it is important to note that what has the NDP inflamed is really only a very small portion of the total costs of health care in the country, namely the differential that may exist between patented medicines and non-patented medicines.

They obviously have no interest in respecting intellectual property. Nor are they making any arguments based upon the laws that stand, the regulations as they exist. Nor have they made any practical, lawful suggestions to us that we could—

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Saint John.

Employment Insurance

[Elsie Wayne, Progressive Conservative, Saint John, NB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Human Resources Development.

We are aware that the government's own actuary has reported that the EI premiums need not be any higher than $2, as opposed to the government's rate of $2.90. We know the government has circulated this report to Canada's business community.

Will the Minister of Human Resources Development share the same information with the House of Commons today? If not, why not?

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, I am not exactly sure to what information the hon. member is referring. If she shared it with me I could give her a more appropriate answer.

This is a very important file for the government as well as for the Conservative Party. We could have a good discussion on this very important issue.

[Elsie Wayne, Progressive Conservative, Saint John, NB]

Mr. Speaker, I am shocked to hear the minister say he does not know about his actuarial report. Everybody else knows about it. The Canadian business community knows about it.

High payroll taxes kill jobs. The government is refusing to accept this and the advice of its own actuary which shows that EI premiums could be cut significantly.

Will the minister, based on the actuarial report, reduce the EI premiums immediately and table the report? And I have it, Mr. Speaker.

[The Speaker]

Let us not use any props in the House. If the minister wants to answer the question, he may.

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, obviously I did not know the member was referring to that very public report, if the member was asking for it. I thought the member was referring to a more specific piece of information.

If the member is referring to that report, I can say the government has already reduced the EI premium four times. Her government was about to put it higher once again. That is what it wanted. Thank God we have been around for awhile.

Labour Relations Board

[Rob Anders, Reform, Calgary West, AB]

Mr. Speaker, when it comes to eating, even the snack pack cannot compete with Ted Weatherill, the chair of the Canada Labour Relations Board. Mr. Weatherill spent $148,000 on snacks in his first eight years as chair. Yet the Liberal government is waiting six months in investigation before it will consider his dismissal.

How many more $733 lunches for two in Paris does the minister need before he cans this half million dollar man?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Minister of Labour]

Mr. Speaker, the auditor general will be reporting to the House on the issue in the next couple of weeks. Until then I have no comments on the issue.

Human Rights

[Gurmant Grewal, Reform, Surrey Central, BC]

Mr. Speaker, at the Vancouver APEC summit the government is hosting among others leaders from Indonesia, Thailand, Vietnam and China. Canadians want the Minister of Foreign Affairs to loudly and publicly raise our concerns about human right abuses with these countries, not behind close doors but loudly and publicly.

While in opposition this minister was talking the talk. Now is the time. Will he walk the walk?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, as I already reported to the House, last summer specifically we were in Jakarta. We raised all the issues the hon. member is concerned about.

As a result of raising those issues we came to an agreement to establish a human rights dialogue. The first colloquium under that dialogue was held two or three weeks ago for East Timor. The questions concerning prisoners were all raised. For the first time we had a number of NGOs involved.

I think that shows real constructive progress in terms of dealing with human rights with Indonesia.

Monetary Policy

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Speaker, although the inflation rate has dropped to 1.5%, the Governor of the Bank of Canada still fears the inflation ghost and has announced that he will increase interest rates. Yet, the mandate of the central bank is clear: it also has to look after employment, not just inflation.

My question is to the Minister of Finance. What is the minister waiting for to call Governor Thiessen to order and force him to fulfil the employment mandate provided for in the Bank of Canada Act?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, the member is well aware that interest rates are really a reflection of inflation. It is necessary to reduce expectations. In fact, in the last three weeks, long term rates have gone down.

So the question is based on a false premise. Interest rates are down, and it is because of this government's monetary policy.