Debates of Nov. 26th, 1997

Senate Of Canada

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the senator from Alberta is Thelma Chalifoux, an innovative educator and pioneering activist in the field of native housing. She is a leading member of the Canadian Metis community.

If the hon. member says that he is sick of such appointments, he and the Reform Party should be—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Laurier—Sainte-Marie.

Calgary Declaration

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it is definitely the first time I see the senators generate so much excitement.

We now know that the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs endorses the Reform Party's position, which urges Parliament to consult Quebeckers regarding the Calgary declaration.

Are we to understand that the federal government has decided to go over the head of the Quebec government and the National Assembly to consult Quebeckers on its own?

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, as elected members from Quebec, we have a duty to consult our fellow citizens, and we are doing so on an agreement that will enable us to show that Quebeckers and other Canadians share the same values and want to remain united in this country.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, this is a polite way of saying that the federal government does not care about Quebec's referendum acts.

By supporting the motion, is the federal government not also supporting certain unusual consultation processes in the other provinces? I am thinking of the 1-800 lines, the questionnaires, the Internet, the fax machines, and all these other not so serious means.

Is this the type of phoney consultations the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs has in mind for Quebec?

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, the provincial premiers are doing a good job under the circumstances.

However, let me give you an example of a phoney consultation. I am alluding to a referendum question to choose a country, in which reference was made to a bill on the future of Quebec and to an agreement signed on June 12. However, a poll conducted during the referendum campaign showed that only 43% of Quebeckers knew which agreement was referred to, only 10% knew which bill was referred to, while 43% believed that Quebec could only become a sovereign nation after signing a partnership agreement. This is an example of a phoney and fraudulent consultation, and it will not happen again.

[Pierre Brien, Bloc, Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Speaker, fortunately Quebeckers have much more judgement than the minister. They understood what was at stake, even if he did not.

Other provinces have been so efficient at consulting their citizens about the Calgary declaration that certain of them have had to cancel consultation days. In Calgary itself, the people questioned during a CBC broadcast said they had never heard of the Calgary declaration.

So how can the minister talk about consulting the people of Quebec when the very folks who signed the Calgary declaration are not even able to carry out consultations properly?

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, consultations are being held and they are going well, and that is precisely what is annoying the Bloc Quebecois. They would dearly love to see the consultations fail, but the problem for them is that things are going well.

But I repeat that the last referendum question was deceptive. Try asking the question clearly “Do you want to abandon Canada and separate?” and you will get such a clear answer from Quebeckers that that will automatically mean the end of your movement.

[Pierre Brien, Bloc, Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Speaker, over 93% of people voted, and I am certain they knew what they were doing, even if he does not.

Many people are starting to call for amendments to the Calgary declaration: First Nations, francophones in Ontario and in Newfoundland, and even their new ally, the Reform Party, is jumping on the bandwagon.

My question is therefore as follows: What exactly does the minister want to consult the people of Quebec about, when support for the Calgary declaration is eroding daily?

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs]

No, Mr. Speaker, it is not eroding. However, if ever the separatists were to put a clear question to the people, they would see that the majority of Quebeckers want to remain in Canada and want nothing to do with their proposal, and that is where the erosion would be.

Health

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, in the absence of the Minister of Health, I would like to direct my question to the Deputy Prime Minister.

Canadians are aghast that this Liberal government has severely eroded its commitment to health protection through deregulation, privatization and massive cuts.

A safe, secure national blood system requires exactly the opposite approach, a strong regulatory framework and sufficient financial resources.

Instead of more cuts, will the federal government back up its earnest words with cold, hard cash?

[Don Boudria, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, as I answered to a previous question, this government is interested and wants a safe blood system, one that will enjoy the confidence of all Canadians.

We are looking forward to Mr. Krever's report which will come out in a little more than half an hour. I am sure the hon. member will want to be fully aware of the contents of that report and then, of course, we would welcome her questions on that document once it is tabled.

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, I think it is clear that all Canadians are going to be concerned about the contents of the report but they want to know whether this government is going to put its money where its mouth is.

A safe, secure blood system is a matter of life and death. This government has a terrible history of slashing funds and cutting services that protect the health of Canadians.

Will the federal government assure Canadians today that the money will be there to ensure a safe, secure blood system for the people of this country?

[Don Boudria, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, obviously this government supports a safe blood system for all Canadians and one that will enjoy the confidence of all Canadians.

We intend to do everything we can. I would urge the hon. member to listen to the answer. That is what we intend to do for the benefit of all Canadians.

The Economy

[Jean Charest, Progressive Conservative, Sherbrooke, QC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday the governor of the Bank of Canada increased the bank rate 25 basis points, allegedly for the purpose of propping up Canada's dollar.

The last time I looked this morning, the Canadian dollar was either where it was or actually lower than it was before the increase in interest rates.

Could the Minister of Finance explain to Canadians what it is exactly that he is trying to accomplish? What is wrong with his economic policies then if the dollar did not increase in value?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, the Leader of the Conservative Party, having himself been a member of a government, knows that the Minister of Finance does not comment on the value of the dollar.

What he should also understand is that in fact interest rates are a matter of inflationary expectations. What occurred the last time the government raised the overnight rate is that long-term rates came down. It is long-term rates upon which investment decisions are made and upon which large consumer items are purchased.

In fact, what the Bank of Canada is doing is very responsible.

[Jean Charest, Progressive Conservative, Sherbrooke, QC]

Mr. Speaker, in a meeting between the Conseil du patronat du Québec and the federal Liberal caucus, the Conseil complained that the government was trying to increase interest rates when, as far as we can see, the rate of inflation is fairly stable. They complained that this policy was going to affect jobs.

I would like to know today why it is that the government is pursuing policies, whether it is EI premiums, increases in CPP premiums and now an increase in interest rates that are having a damaging effect on the 1.4 million unemployed in Canada.

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, let me simply say that 10 year bonds have been down 27 basis points in the last two months and 30 year bonds are down 39 basis points. In fact 30 year bonds are now at a record low as are mortgages.

In terms of EI premiums, the minister of human resources announced last week that they were cut from $2.90 to $2.70. When we took office they were on their way to $3.30. As far as CPP premiums are concerned, the reason the federal government—

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Skeena.

Aboriginal Affairs

[Mike Scott, Reform, Skeena, BC]

Mr. Speaker, a department of Indian affairs internal spending analysis obtained by the Reform Party is a catalogue of failure and a scathing indictment of the government. Words like non-compliance, inadequate documentation, double dipping, fraud and cooking the books are rife throughout.

A section of the report reveals DIAND officials think 20% to 50% of nearly $1 billion in aboriginal social assistance is not accounted for.

How could the minister possibly explain this massive abuse when so many are so badly in need?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, having travelled across the country and spoken to first nations leaderships, having spoken with the commissioners involved in the royal commission report on aboriginal people and having received the report to which the hon. member referred, there is nothing clearer in my mind than the fact the social assistance program we have in place to support aboriginal people needs modernization and change.

It is my commitment to work with first nations and aboriginal people to do just that and to modernize the program. I would ask the hon. member to work with me.

[Mike Scott, Reform, Skeena, BC]

Mr. Speaker, that dog won't hunt.

In 1994 the auditor general said there was a problem and the government said that it would deal with it. Now, three years later, we find out that the problem not only still exists but is worse.

When did the minister first become aware of this document? Have her own departmental officials been stonewalling her?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, I have already spoken out on the need for change to social assistance for aboriginal people.

It is a program of great support for aboriginal people. Their unemployment levels are at 40%, 50% and 60%. We need to modernize the system to ensure that it is not a system of dependency but a system that is proactive and empowers aboriginal people to engage in economic development and the strategies that will make their lives better.

Option Canada

[Suzanne Tremblay, Bloc, Rimouski—Mitis, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Canadian Heritage.

In the murky business of Option Canada, the minister can say all she wants but, by refusing to tell us how the $4.8 million was spent, she is putting herself above Quebec's referendum act.

Will the minister confirm that she is hiding the details of these expenditures because she knows full well that such expenditures were in violation of Quebec's referendum act?