Madam Speaker, we are resuming debate on Motion No. 8, tabled by the Conservative member for Madawaska—Restigouche.
What he is saying in this particular motion is that the regulations made under paragraph 1(b) must reflect the objectives of the board as set out in section 5.
This is something which appears to be highly technical. He is talking here, of course, about the investment board of the Canada pension plan.
We are going to have a radically new departure from the Canada pension plan when this legislation is passed through the House, through the Senate and receives royal assent in a matter of a few weeks.
Currently the Canada pension plan has, roughly, a two year contingency fund of about $40 billion. That $40 billion fund is now being loaned to the provinces at federal government long bond rates, which are the cheapest rates for long term debt. That has been very positive for a number of provinces in the country, including my own province of Saskatchewan which a while ago was going through a difficult financial time.
It has also been very helpful for Manitoba, which at times has not had a very positive credit rating. As well, it has been helpful to the provinces of Atlantic Canada, particularly Newfoundland.
That has actually been a pretty good part of the Canada pension plan. The provinces have borrowed to build schools, hospitals and infrastructure to make a stronger province and a stronger country. That is what the fund is used for.
However, there will be a change. Instead of having about two years of funding set aside, in a few years there will be five or six years of funding set aside through the establishment of an investment fund. In a few years that investment fund will grow to over $136 billion. The fund will invest in the market, similar to the way in which private pension funds are invested. A board will be established. That board will have regulations, objectives and goals.
Our concern is that we think the goals and objectives of the fund will be too narrowly defined. I do not support this amendment today because it reasserts support for that narrow definition of the objectives of the fund. We believe that the fund should have more broadly defined objectives, similar to the Caisse de dépot et placement in Quebec. Its objectives not only speak to the return to the eventual pensioner but also talk about some of the social objectives in terms of Quebec society.
It looks at things like creating jobs in the province of Quebec, investing in Quebec industries, building a stronger economy in the province of Quebec, and so on.
Quebec's Caisse de dépôt et placement has served Quebeckers well over the past 60 years. The province's economy is now stronger, partly because of this fund available to Quebeckers.
The economy gradually became stronger and unemployment diminished, thanks to the Caisse de dépôt et placement, whose objectives were broader and more encompassing, and whose vision was more positive. In fact, the vision was not at all the same in the federal fund for the rest of Canada.
There is a vision here that is more narrow. It talks only about maximizing the returns to the people who are making the contribution to the fund.
It is important to maximize returns but we need some balance as well. I think about jobs in Canada, creating more jobs. That is very important, investing in Canadian industry, in Canadian business. There are a lot of very profitable businesses in this country which, if they had access to more funding, major pension funds, might do even better.
I noticed in the House yesterday that we were criticized. Indeed the Bloc Quebecois was also criticized for talking about doctrinaire investment. We are not talking about doctrinaire investment. We are talking about an investment fund that has a similar objective to the Caisse de dépots et placements in the province of Quebec. That is not what I would call doctrinaire investment.
It is a fund which was supported not only by the Bloc Quebecois. Long before the Bloc Quebecois, the Liberal Party was in office in Quebec, with Mr. Lesage, who had previously sat here as an MP if I am not mistaken. The Liberals were followed by the Union nationale, which was a conservative party quite similar to the federal one. The Union nationale also supported the Quebec fund and its objectives. Then came Mr. Bourassa and the Liberal Party again.
I think what is happening in Quebec in terms of the fund's objectives is very laudable, very positive and could serve as a model in terms of this particular investment fund. The concern we have is that the objectives are too narrowly defined, looking solely at the maximization of the return.
My prediction is that it is not going to be very long before the Minister of Finance will succumb to pressure from the investment community to lift the rule that says only 20% of the funds can be invested outside this country. I have asked that question to the Minister of Finance. He said for the time being we are not going to change the rules. He has always left that door open, that in the future those rules may be changed.
I believe they will because this will be the biggest investment fund in the country. There will be pressure from other funds as well to lift the rules so that more money can be invested out of the country. I think that is going the wrong way. This is the Canadians' money. It is Canadian workers' money. It is money from Canadian business, from small business, from the employers and the employees and most of those funds should be invested right here in the country.
With a great deal of respect to my colleague of the Conservative Party from New Brunswick, I cannot support the motion before the House today because I think it just reinforces the narrowness of the objectives and goals of that board of directors. The board of directors, I believe, will be lopsided in terms of who it represents. It will represent mainly the business community.
We moved an amendment in committee that would have a balance in terms of the board of directors between the two stakeholders, between labour and business. That amendment I moved in committee was supported by the Reform Party, the Bloc Quebecois, the Conservative Party, the four opposition parties, but the government across the way would not accept that very reasonable amendment that there should be balance on the board of directors between business and labour to stakeholders. If we do not have that balance and if we have narrow objectives in terms of what the board should do, then I am even more concerned about the use of the money of the working people of this country.
It is bizarre that we have a Parliament now where the Liberal Party represents only 38% of the Canadian people and the opposition parties represent 62% of the Canadian people, as of the results on June 2. Yet the government has refused to accept even a single opposition amendment at the committee stage and appears unwilling to accept even a single opposition amendment here at report stage. Is that parliamentary democracy?
We do not expect all the amendments to be carried or accepted, but surely to goodness some of them could be accepted. They have been suggested by business groups before the committee. They have been suggested by social action groups before the committee. They have been suggested by trade union groups before the committee. They are reasonable amendments. Some of the amendments would not need the approval of the provinces yet they have been turned down. They have fallen on deaf ears.
That is one reason we need a serious effort at looking at democratic reform so that the people's wishes can be expressed and accurately reflected in the House of Commons. It is ironic that 38% of the people can elect a majority government and that majority government does not listen to the representatives of 62% of the people.
We still have some time left. The parliamentary secretary is sitting across the way. I once in a while see his head nod but that is about all I see. I hope he will be more receptive and will consider some of the amendments, in particular amendments where we have a three or four party consensus on this side of the House.
This amendment is obviously not one where we have consensus. I think two opposition parties support this amendment and two opposition parties oppose it. Maybe this reflects a difference between social democrats and conservative ideology, but on many amendments there is four party consensus.
Why can the government not listen to the people and reflect the wishes of the people by accepting some amendments that are reasonable? I do not know whether the rules permit, but I would like to have a response from the parliamentary secretary or from the gentleman on my left who has been very active in the committee on whether or not they might accept some of the amendments. I will wind up by asking them to be reasonable and to accept a few of the opposition amendments.