Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to take part in the debate on Bill C-2, which seeks to put some order in the Canada pension plan and to modernize its structure.
I want to pay tribute to my distinguished colleague, the hon. member for Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup—Témiscouata—Les Basques, who does a wonderful job in leading the Bloc regarding this issue and in expressing Quebec's representations on the amendments to the Canada pension plan.
The Canada pension plan must undergo a thorough review. If the government does not act or is slow to act, within ten years, the fund will be empty. I am among those who have always believed that, when a government or a municipality buys or builds things, the payments should be spread out over the duration of the investment.
It would not be wise for a government to borrow each week to pay its public servants, just as it would not be wise for the hon. member for Québec to borrow every month to pay her rent. The government has now reached a deadline where it must make decisions, otherwise our children or grandchildren will have to pay so we can get our old age pension.
Last year's contribution rate of 5.6% was clearly too low. In 15 years or so, the baby-boomers—and I am one of them—will reach retirement age in very large numbers, at which point the fund would be insufficient.
So, the government, whose role is to anticipate such things, must make proposals to adjust the contribution rate, so as to meet future financial needs. The proposed rate schedule seems fair and reasonable. The rate current of 5.85% for 1997 would be increased to 6%. Premiums will go up slowly but surely over the next five years to a maximum of $9.90, or 9.9% if you prefer, in 2003.
This 9.9% would be frozen. According to actuaries we have consulted, who corroborate the government's figures, it could be frozen until 2100, in other words, for over a century. If our forecasts are accurate, and I believe they are, this should provide us with a safety valve for those who will begin to draw a pension at age 65.
To govern means to anticipate. Certain parties in the House are going to oppose an adjustment. They apparently do not anticipate the impact of baby boomers. Those now 50 and under are going to be reaching the eligible age in very high numbers. When we begin drawing benefits, we will be contributing much less, perhaps nothing at all if we have no insurable earnings. So the fund will be rapidly depleted.
It is my sincere and honest belief that recipients must pay the cost of this pension plan. For this reason, our party will be supporting Bill C-2 generally speaking.
But we cannot vote in favour of the motions in Group No. 6 because they go directly against the premise that the plan must be self-funding.
Bill C-2 has three basic objectives. In order for the plan to be self-funding, there must be increased capitalization, and this I think will be achieved through the new premium rates over the next five years.
It is also necessary to increase the rate of return—and this is important—through the establishment of a Canada pension plan investment board. The role of this board is not to stash the money in a sock like my grandfather used to do; that was not only unsafe, it was also unprofitable. Inflation was not very high at that time, so he did not lose anything, but he did not gain anything either.
At present, we could say that the government has not succeeded in using wisely this large amount of money that was placed in its care. It has not been a cautious administrator of these investments, unlike what Quebec did for the Régie des rentes when it established the Caisse de dépôt et placement.
I would like to take the opportunity here to pay tribute to a great team led by Jean Lesage at the beginning of the sixties. That team included none other than Jacques Parizeau, and, of course, René Lévesque. So they set up the Caisse de dépôt et placement, which, often, produces a return of up to 20% a year. That is a very interesting annual rate of return; it is the equivalent of one fifth of the total capital that the Caisse de dépôt et placement du Québec is responsible for. Unfortunately, the central government failed to act and was unable to ensure a proper yield for the money in the Canada pension plan; this is rather disturbing and shameful.
Fortunately, with Bill C-2, the Canada pension plan investment board is being established, and if it is well managed, it should be able, hopefully, to equal the return obtained in Quebec.
There are now only two provinces that continue to oppose Bill C-2. But with the agreements that are now in place, as soon as there are eight provinces representing a sufficient percentage, we will be able to override the two provinces that refuse to go along with the plan.
The third objective of Bill C-2 is to tighten up the requirements for certain benefits, including disability benefits.
We must be careful not to give disability benefits to everyone who claims them. Everyone knows that, in certain regions, and especially in certain provinces I will not name here, when people lose their job, they go to see the doctor or any other person who can be of assistance to provide a disability certificate. But doing this costs a lot of money for all the other people who are honest and who have to pay for the ones that are exploiting the system.
To conclude, the Canada pension plan investment board, again, if it is properly managed, could provide dividends, and this would be profitable for all Canadians. The member for Malpeque, in Prince Edward Island, who is listening to me closely, must know that when a potato is planted, it is subdivided into eight parts, and this can yield almost three quarters of a bag of potatoes. So he knows that in the case of potatoes, it is possible to ensure that these plants will provide a yield.
Therefore, in the case of the federal government, if they do the same thing as the member for Malpeque, they will be able to make sure that this money yields a profit.
And, finally, I am glad to see that with this bill, it will be possible to invest up to 20% outside the country, and, of course, a minimum of 80% will have to stay in the country, in Quebec or elsewhere, but it will have to stay in Canada.