Debates of March 4th, 1997

Tobacco Act

[David Dingwall, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member opposite for his question. The fact of the matter remains that over the last number of months we have been very reasonable and very comprehensive in the legislation we are putting forward.

As I am sure the hon. member knows and knows only too well, there is no banning of sponsorships. There is no banning of sponsorship promotion. In point of fact it was his party and this leader who stood in their places and supported the principles on second reading which included the restrictions on sponsorships.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to remind the minister, as I did yesterday, that our political party shares the objective of reducing smoking. What we do not agree with is their desire to kill events in Montreal.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

I would like to tell the health minister, through you, Mr. Speaker, that Quebecers will never accept a decision that interferes with the entire range of sports and cultural development, particularly that of Montreal and of Quebec. We will not accept it.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Did the health minister not hold discussions with his colleagues from Quebec? Did nobody in this government point out to him that, if over 50 per cent of sponsorships go to Quebec, the repercussions of his plan on Quebec will be extremely negative in the short term?

[David Dingwall, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, members of all political parties in the House have to listen quite carefully to what the Leader of the Official Opposition says on the subject matter.

So that we have all the facts I will share with my hon. colleague opposite that 36 of the medical associations in la belle province de Québec are in support of the legislation; 24 public health networks in the province of Quebec support the legislation; 140 hospitals in the province of Quebec support the legislation; and 27 anti-tobacco groups in the province of Quebec support the legislation.

When the hon. member stands in his place let him remember that in the province of Quebec in excess of 200 municipal units support the provisions of Bill C-71.

[The Speaker]

At this point I judge the questions to be in order today because they never made mention of the bill which we are debating in the House. I would ask also that in the responses from the government no mention of the bill be brought up.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, the minister can talk all he wants about support but the fact remains that, if he were more aware of what was going in Quebec, he would know that on all the radio stations today, everywhere, Quebecers are protesting against certain provisions of his bill. They would like to get him to listen to reason.

I heard the Minister of Labour say on television: "We will see. Perhaps it will be the end of the world; we will wait and see". Is the government going to run the risk of waiting and seeing Quebec's sports and cultural events destroyed before reacting? Are we once again going to be the victim of a bad decision made by Ottawa much too far away from where we live?

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear.

[David Dingwall, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank my colleagues opposite for that round of applause. I think the tone has been hit by the Leader of the Opposition when he talks about reasonableness.

The fact is the chairman of the Standing Committee on Health heard all the various groups make representation. It was a result of their recommendation, which his party was a part of, that this government had heeded the suggestion of the hon. member, giving him an implementation period.

I want the hon. opposite to reflect on this: "My name is Eric Carsley. My wife, my companion, my best friend for 23 years, died two years ago at the age of 45 from lung cancer that was caused by her smoking". That man is from the province of Quebec. This government stands solidly behind children and people across the country to fight tobacco consumption in this country.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, in a letter addressed to Hon. Senator Colin Kenny, Senator Céline Hervieux-Payette, who is not a Bloc Quebecois member-

[An hon. member]

No, she is Liberal.

[An hon. member]

Not yet.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

-who is Liberal, writes the following: "If Quebec's sports and cultural activities are to be the guinea pigs of a policy that will not produce its intended effects, I want no part of it". This comment is from Senator Céline Hervieux-Payette, the vice-president of the Liberal election campaign. She definitely did not make it for political expediency.

If the minister will not listen to the official opposition, will he at least listen to a Liberal senator, to the vice-president of the election campaign of a party seeking to win seats outside Quebec, but which seems to have let Quebec and its members down, since 68 per cent of Quebecers are against the Liberals?

[David Dingwall, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, it was precisely for the reasons which were given at the Standing Committee on Health, where all members of different political parties were represented and recommendations came forward in order to provide some reasonableness for an implementation period for arts and cultural groups, that we have followed up on that suggestion.

Furthermore, I think it has to be understood that notwithstanding the date, October 1998, thereafter there is no banning of sponsorships. There is no banning of sponsorship promotion. In point of fact, our bill, as the leader of the opposition has indicated, is indeed very reasonable.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the party in office rejected all the amendments we proposed. It did not want to hear promoters of cultural and sports events-

[An hon. member]

None.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

-and had it not been for the Bloc Quebecois, these people would not have been heard. Ask them-

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

My colleagues, I am listening very carefully to the questions as they are posed. It is true that today we are debating a certain bill. It is also true that before the question is posed, and I do not know what the question is, if members take me too far down the road in the preamble it would be my intention to intervene.

However, with respect to all members who are raising their voices in question period, I have judged to this point for these questions which are posed to be of a general enough nature that they are acceptable. I am going to permit these questions, providing they do not refer specifically to the bill under discussion today.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Absolutely, Mr. Speaker.

Again, I am quoting the Hon. Senator, who said: "Give me your support to keep Montreal, which is already plagued by unemployment, from being the big loser regarding this policy".

Did the minister hear the people from Trois-Rivières today, those from Montreal, the cab drivers, the restaurant and hotel owners, the promoters of major cultural and sports events, who said it does not make sense to destroy Montreal's cultural and sports life, to eliminate its cultural and sports events, adding that the government should educate young people about the dangers of tobacco use, instead of going after Montreal's economy and the city's cultural and sports events? Will the minister listen to these people once and for all?

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear.

[David Dingwall, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, it was precisely for those reasons that many individuals came before the standing committee. That was the rationale we had for the purposes of the implementation period, so that people have the opportunity to adjust to the new regime.

It is quite false for individuals to suggest or to imply that this legislation in any way bans sponsorship or sponsorship promotions. What is being done is that restrictions are being placed on four essential items: the price, the place, the product and the promotion.

I am appalled that a candidate for the leadership of a party would stand in his place and dismiss $3.5 billion in costs to our health care system and 40,000 lives each and every year. Shame on the Bloc Quebecois.

Pensions

[Deborah Grey, Reform, Beaver River, AB]

Mr. Speaker, 32 years ago today John Kroeker was fired from the federal civil service for daring to criticize the Pearson government's newly created Canada pension plan.

Mr. Kroeker rightly predicted that the CPP was unsustainable and for that he lost his job. For that he was blackballed by the federal government and labelled a kook. Mr. Kroeker said that the CPP would be broke by the year 2000 without constant and large infusions of cash from Canadian taxpayers.

Will the Prime Minister, who was part of that Pearson government decades ago, admit that Mr. Kroeker was right in 1965 and that his own Liberal government was wrong?