Debates of April 21st, 1997

Parliament Of Canada Act

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[Bob Kilger, Liberal, Stormont—Dundas, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I wonder if we might suspend the sitting of the House until 12 noon.

[The Deputy Speaker]

Is there unanimous agreement to suspend the sitting until 12 noon?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

(The sitting of the House was suspended at 11.52 a.m.)

The House resumed at 12.02 p.m.

The House proceeded to the consideration of Bill C-93, an act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on February 18, 1997 as reported (without amendment) from the committee.

Budget Implementation Act, 1997

[Lucienne Robillard, Liberal, for the Minister of Finance]

moved that the bill be concurred in and read the second time.

[The Deputy Speaker]

Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[Some hon. members]

No.

[The Deputy Speaker]

All those in favour of the motion will please say yea.

[Some hon. members]

Yea.

[The Deputy Speaker]

All those opposed will please say nay.

[Some hon. members]

Nay.

[The Deputy Speaker]

In my opinion the yeas have it.

And more than five members having risen:

[The Deputy Speaker]

Call in the members.

And the bells having rung:

[The Deputy Speaker]

A recorded division on the motion stands deferred until the completion of Government Orders today.

The House resumed from April 18 consideration of the motion that Bill C-95, an act to amend the Criminal Code (criminal organizations) and to amend other acts in consequence, be read the second time and referred to committee of the whole.

Criminal Code

[The Deputy Speaker]

Is the House ready for the question?

[Some hon. members]

Question.

[The Deputy Speaker]

Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[Some hon. members]

On division.

(Motion agreed to, bill read the second time and the House went into committee thereon, Mr. Kilgour in the chair.)

On Clause 1

[Jack Ramsay, Reform, Crowfoot, AB]

Mr. Chairman, it is very important through this committee of the whole and through the questions we have prepared for the minister that we determine the constitutionality and the enforceability of this bill and whether this clause and the allied clause which it creates, that is criminal organization and criminal organization offence, are enforceable and not hollow pieces of legislation. I have some concerns about the wording of this section and perhaps the minister can respond.

The first clause refers to a criminal organization which means any group, association or body. But group, association or other body is not defined in the bill and I do not believe it is defined elsewhere in the Criminal Code. Could the minister please tell the committee what he meant by the terms group, association or other body in the bill? What did he mean when he placed these terms in the bill?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Chairman, we intended the dictionary definition of group, association or other body. We did not think it was necessary to define those terms. We intend them to have their ordinary meaning. We also added "whether formally or informally organized" so we would not need membership cards or a written constitution for a group or organization to meet this definition.

We are aware from our dealings with the police and others that organized crime takes many forms in Canada. It is sometimes in the nature of what we refer to as biker gangs. Sometimes it is far less visible, white collar crime or business crime. The conclusion to which we came based on the mischief we are aiming at through this legislation is that the words group, association or other body

are sufficient to capture organized crime in the many forms in which it appears as long as the balance of the definition was satisfied as well.