Debates of Oct. 1st, 1998

Economic Situation

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, it is clear that we live in a volatile world. The meeting of the Commonwealth countries has just concluded. We have just seen the projections of the International Monetary Fund: two-thirds of the world's economies are in recession. There is no doubt that Canada will be affected.

That said, Canada, fortunately, has taken precautions in order to weather these storms. That is what counts most.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the experts are saying, the economists are saying, the opposition is saying, everybody is saying that there is a problem. For the fourth consecutive month, the indicators are dropping.

The Prime Minister, however, says everything is fine. The king is happy.

Is it not time the Prime Minister recognized that the first responsible step he should take is to return to workers, to the unemployed and to business the $7 billion he took from their pockets and to inject this money into the economy? That represents $500 million a month.

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, let us look at what the Bloc is asking. If we followed every suggestion, we would be back in a deficit situation by the end of the year, and interest rates would be on the rise.

Allow me to quote the president of the Bank of Hong Kong, who said “Canada is being affected by events largely beyond its control”. I thank God every day that our financial situation is better than it was five years ago. Imagine what it would be like if we still had a deficit, as the Bloc Quebecois would like.

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Speaker, while the government pocketed a $7 billion surplus over a four-month period, experts are increasingly talking about a recession: the GDP is declining, the dollar is plunging and consumer confidence is being eroded.

My question is for the Prime Minister. Does the Prime Minister—who is stubbornly refusing to take any initiative to get the economy back on track—not realize that the outrageous cuts he continues to make in the economy could bring about a recession within a year?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, all the economists unanimously agree that, if there is a problem with the economy, it is outside our borders. This situation exists because there is a problem in Russia and Asia.

The best thing we can do to weather the storm is to maintain our policy, which is based on caution and a balanced approach.

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Speaker, a GDP on the decline for four consecutive months is not the result of an international problem, but a domestic one.

For the past two months, the Bloc Quebecois has been warning the Prime Minister that we are slowly sinking into a recession.

So, I put the question to him: Will he continue to watch the train go by until next spring's budget, or will he have the courage to immediately take the actions he can and must take to get the economy back on track, without running a deficit?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, there is no doubt that there are problems outside our borders.

According to the Bloc Quebecois, if the government of Russia cannot collect taxes, it is Ottawa's fault. According to the Bloc, if there is a problem with Japanese banks, it is Ottawa's problem. According to the Bloc, if there are problems with emerging economies, it is Ottawa's fault. The Bloc's position is absolutely ludicrous.

The Economy

[Bill Blaikie, NDP, Winnipeg—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is also for the Minister of Finance.

For some time now we have had preached to us the virtues of an unregulated global economy and getting the fundamentals right here at home. Yet by the minister's own admission there is a storm coming. There is an economic downturn. There is a lot of anxiety in the country.

Could the Minister of Finance tell us today whether he intends any new measures to deal with the new situation which is that getting the fundamentals right has not worked?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, for a number of years the government has made its projections we have been told that we have been too prudent, that we have been too cautious. We have said that eventually there will be a downturn, that eventually the kind of storm we are going through in fact will occur.

It is for that reason we have been prudent. It is for that reason we have put in place a plan that will enable us to take advantage of the opportunities of an upturn and ride through the storms when in fact they occur. Thank heaven we have done that.

[Bill Blaikie, NDP, Winnipeg—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I say to the Minister of Finance that when there is a storm coming you generally take some kind of precautions, especially when you know the storm is coming.

Given the fact that workers are the ones most likely to be hurt by this coming economic storm, would the minister consider, in the debate he wants about the EI surplus, whether or not restoring benefits and eligibility in EI would be one of the options, given that workers are the ones to be most affected if the storm is as bad as we think it might be?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, the government looks forward to a debate certainly on the EI issue, but in the kind of storm we are looking at we also happen to believe that lowering taxes for seniors and lowering taxes for self-employed workers is important.

We also believe there is no excuse not to make sure that the health care system in the country is in as good shape as it can possibly be. We believe that debt should be retired. We also believe that EI premiums should be reduced. We will do all this within the context of our financial resources.

Veterans Affairs

[Elsie Wayne, Progressive Conservative, Saint John, NB]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday the Minister of Veterans Affairs stated regarding fair compensation for Canada's merchant navy vets “I don't see the appetite for that in my cabinet”. It is clear that the current minister has no clout at the cabinet level.

I am very concerned about these merchant navy vets being on hunger strike, but they remain convinced that hunger strike is the only way to get fair treatment.

Since the Minister of Veterans Affairs does not have the appetite to defend these vets, will the Prime Minister step in, do the right thing and offer merchant navy vets fair compensation like all other allied countries have?

[Bob Wood, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, hunger strikes are regrettable. We are talking about the health and welfare of several Canadian veterans. I would strongly caution the hon. member not to inflame the situation with unnecessary rhetoric.

I have spoken to the merchant navy vets, as has the minister, and we have assured them that with the 1992 legislation merchant mariners are veterans in every sense of the word, that they are entitled to all benefits currently available to veterans of the armed forces, and that the 1992—

[The Speaker]

The hon. leader of the Conservative Party.

[Elsie Wayne, Progressive Conservative, Saint John, NB]

Mr. Speaker, I am embarrassed to hear such an answer like that from the government when the poor merchant navy vets are right here.

Let me tell him that they are not equal. That is why the minister wants to bring in new legislation which he was supposed to bring in June.

The Minister of Veterans Affairs cares so little that he is on a little trip in Korea. These men are still on a hunger strike. The minister does not care for these veterans. All I ask from the Prime Minister is will he replace him and put someone in who does care for them?

[Bob Wood, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, the minister is a distinguished military person and he does care and the member knows it.

She is quite right. The Minister of Veterans Affairs is taking a delegation of Canadian veterans of the Korean war back to their former battle sites to commemorate the 45th anniversary of the ceasefire in Korea. Let me tell the member that this delegation is made up of representatives of every—

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Saanich—Gulf Islands.

Fisheries

[Gary Lunn, Reform, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Mr. Speaker, we know this government fires people who are about to expose the truth as it has fired the CPP watchdog.

We know this government's failed fish policies, more specifically foreign overfishing and the mismanagement within the department have been an unmitigated disaster. We know the fisheries committee chairman has been removed not only as chairman but from the entire committee.

Is it the policy of this government to fire every single person who gets in its way?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I and some of my colleagues had the privilege to talk with the member for Gander—Grand Falls a few minutes ago. I asked him why he had asked not to be the chair of the committee. He said it was for personal reasons.

He asked me to inform the House and the Reform Party that he is completely happy with the Liberal government. He is very happy with the Prime Minister of Canada. He is very happy with the policies of this government and he is—

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Saanich—Gulf Islands.

[Gary Lunn, Reform, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Mr. Speaker, we know this government has trouble with the truth: Krever, Somalia, APEC the CPP watchdog and now fish. It is shameful that this government is trying to hide behind some phony excuse that it knows is absolutely not the truth.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

I ask the hon. member to withdraw those last few words.

[Gary Lunn, Reform, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is—

[The Speaker]

I asked the hon. member to withdraw those last few words.