Madam Speaker, I am very pleased to have the opportunity today to speak on behalf of the NDP caucus on Bill C-43. I would like to say at the outset that the member for Regina—Qu'Appelle outlined very well why members of the NDP are opposed to this bill.
This is a very significant bill that the House is debating today. It deals with the importance of the national collection of taxes and revenue in Canada. Certainly from the government perspective, from the House of Commons perspective, this is probably the fundamental purpose we are here, to ensure there is a fair and equitable collection system as well as a process and formula whereby we do collect taxes from the Canadian people.
From the public point of view this is also a very significant issue. If we talk to Canadians about the taxation system, people obviously do not like paying taxes but I think Canadians understand that the process of doing that is something that must be transparent. It is something that must have a measure of accountability because it really is the most fundamental purpose and issue of why we are here in this House. From that point of view this bill is very important.
The issue arises then as to whether or not this bill is good public policy or whether it takes us in another direction. Having examined the bill and having looked at the various commentaries about this bill, I and my colleagues have come to the conclusion that this bill represents bad public policy. I would like to give a number of reasons why we have come to this conclusion.
First of all the bill is premised on the fact that bigger is better. When we look at the provisions that are contained in Bill C-43, it is quite alarming and scary to think that this bill, if it is approved by this House, will put into motion a mega tax collection agency in Canada that will go from the national to the provincial and even the municipal levels.
This agency could be in a position where it ends up collecting provincial sales taxes, gasoline taxes, liquor taxes, municipal property taxes and on and on. It raises the question of do we want this mega tax agency to be involved with such concentration in collecting taxes across the country?
I come from a municipal background. I understand as do other municipal representatives that the people of Canada, whether they are voting at the municipal, provincial or federal levels, believe very much in the old adage of no taxation without representation.
I know at the municipal level when decisions are made about municipal taxes, and the same is true at the provincial and federal levels, that there is an expectation that elected representatives are accountable for the decisions they make. That is not only decisions in terms of process and where taxes are spent, but also how taxes are collected.
One of the very alarming measures and proposals in this bill is it creates this mega tax agency and we will lose the sense of accountability at other levels of government in terms of tax collection. This is something we should be seriously concerned about.
The NDP believes very strongly in a strong federal government. In terms of national unity, in terms of what it is that holds Canada together, we believe there have to be national standards. It may seem contradictory that on this issue we are arguing against some kind of national agency that collects taxes from even other levels of government. I think the difference here is that because taxation is something that is involved in different levels of government, it is really important that those levels of government be responsible not just for the decisions they make but also for their tax collection and the accountability for that.
From that point of view we are very concerned about the rationale put forward in this bill that bigger is better. It leaves us open to all kinds of abuses. It leaves us open to a distance in terms of decisions that are made and the accountability that needs to be held.
Dealing with the issue of accountability, as a member of parliament, like other MPs, a lot of my case work in my constituency involves Revenue Canada. We get queries and complaints from constituents who feel lost in the maze of Revenue Canada. One of the fundamental concerns I have about this bill and I hope that other members of the House would have about this bill is that we lose the sense of accountability.
At the end of the day it is we as members of this House who have to provide the role of watchdog and monitor what happens in Revenue Canada or any other federal government department. I hold that responsibility for my constituents. I try to do the best I can when they raise complaints and concerns about Revenue Canada or any other department. That is a hard enough job, but it is a role we hold in this House and I believe that members take that role seriously.
What concerns me about Bill C-43 is that the government is poised to create a super agency that will now have a greater distance in terms of the relationship of the minister. It sets up sort of a private sector board and no doubt there will be Liberal appointees on it. It takes us one step further from the accountability that comes from this House of Commons and the members who are here in terms of providing that role of monitoring Revenue Canada.
For those reasons alone we should be speaking out against the creation of this super agency. We want to have departments and operations of the government that are fully accountable to the Parliament of Canada. I think there is enough in this bill to cause us concern that that will not be the case if this bill is approved.
There are also some very serious concerns around issues to do with personal privacy. When I talk to my constituents in the riding, one of the issues that comes up continually is people's concern about the loss of privacy involving government operations. This is something that comes up in dealing with departments and government operations, such as Revenue Canada. I know that others as well have raised this as a concern.
The bill is creating this super agency of tax collection and concentrating the powers in a massive bureaucracy. It will have such wide sweeping powers for collection, potentially at every level of government. That is what the aim is of this bill and of the mandate that is being put before us. What will be eroded is an individual's right to privacy and confidentiality as people find themselves dealing with a huge bureaucracy where information, perhaps inadvertently or through whatever process, may end up in the wrong hands. That is another reason why we should be very concerned about the creation of this agency.
A little while ago in the debate we heard one of the government members give some of the reasons that the government believes this tax collection agency is a good thing. One of the reasons cited was that there would be greater savings. We were told that there will be less overlap. We were told there is one taxpayer so why not one agency. We were told that there will be increased participation by the provinces.
When one looks at this bill and at the dangers that are inherent in the creation of this super agency, I think the alleged benefits that are created become very suspect. I doubt that there will be greater savings. Even the work that has been done so far has created costs but the creation of new layers of bureaucracy in terms of this super agency is something that is costing us money. However, if there are greater savings, then I think we have to ask at what cost. At what cost in terms of the privacy loss that may be involved and in terms of the lack and lessening of accountability that will accrue as we move into this one agency.
Those are very serious issues that we have to debate in this House and challenge the government to answer. So far it has not provided answers to the questions that have been raised.
In terms of overlap and duplication, I would again like to express the concerns that we on this side of the House have about this mega agency becoming all-encompassing. We will lose the sense of accountability.
We have also been told that provincial governments are very much in favour of the potential cost savings and in handing over the collection to this mega agency. When we look at the record, as my colleague from Regina—Qu'Appelle outlined, we can see that there are two major provinces with major populations that are opposed to this agency. Now there are other provinces particularly in western Canada that are expressing concerns. There is a lot of doubt that there will be any sign on as envisioned by the government.
The proposition is being put forward that this is a sold thing and that it is well on its way, but from day one this proposal has been in trouble. I think a lot of doubt has been created and some of it has come from the provinces.
Another issue that should cause us concern is the prospect that this agency will have the ability to levy user fees. This is something that has not come out very much and something which is not well understood. It is very important for us to understand that if this bill is approved and this agency is set up, it would have the potential to bring in user fees for certain client services.
We have to examine that very carefully and see the warning signals of what that means. We look at that kind of measure along the lines of privatization. Privatization and user fees go hand in hand.
This brings me to my next concern, the massive privatization of Revenue Canada. Something like 40,000 workers are involved. Most of the unions that are involved in Revenue Canada have been very opposed to this proposal. It is easy for the government or other opposition parties to discount the comments of the workers at Revenue Canada or any other government department and say “Well, they just have a vested interest and we should not consider seriously what they have to say”.
Over the years I have learned that people who work on the front line, who understand the operation intimately of any department, whether Revenue Canada, the pension plan, EI or whatever, have very valid legitimate things to say. They have the real experience of what makes a department work.
When we hear from the representation of workers in Revenue Canada that they have serious concerns about the privatization of this agency it sounds a warning bell to members of the House of Commons to take serious note. We should consider their arguments. We are not in favour of privatization. The NDP believes strongly that these core government services should remain as departments of the government. They should be accountable to the House of Commons. Look at Canada Post and the relationship that has deteriorated between the people of Canada, the customers, and the corporation. One need only look at other privatized services to see the sense of distrust that develops.
Again this becomes a very strong reason why we should reject this bill and say that this is taking us down the wrong road. We do not want to go down the road of privatization. We want to ensure that this department remains within government services, that it is clearly mandated, that there is accountability to the House so that we do not end up in a scenario of user fees where this agency is used to pressure, for example, the harmonized sales tax.
We know from day one that one of the purposes of this agency was to promote that kind of idea. The fact is that idea fell flat. It was a resounding failure in the maritimes. With the creation of this agency under Bill C-43 the potential exists that there will be pressure from this agency to move ahead with the harmonized sales tax which Canadians are increasingly rejecting.
Within the financial community there has been debate about this bill. People have looked at the proposal and have tried to decide whether there actually is a public benefit, whether there are economic reasons for moving ahead at this, whether there are public policy reasons for moving ahead with this, whether this is in the interests of Canadian taxpayers.
It has been very clear that even the auditor general has expressed concerns about this proposal. This was raised in the auditor general's report of December 1997. He asked how Canadians and parliamentarians will have assurances that the public interest is protected. That is a very good question. How will we be provided with that assurance? The government has not given us any indication or substantial answer that the creation of this super agency will protect the public interest, that Canadians will be better off under this proposal.
We also have comments from other people. For example, Professor Vern Krishna from the University of Ottawa's CGA taxation research centre asked what really are the benefits. He clearly raised a number of doubts about the real public benefits of moving ahead with this.
This is the kind of bill that is not on the front pages of the newspapers. It is not on the national news at night. Nevertheless, it is a significant proposal. It has been a long time in the works. It is a proposal that has gone wrong. It is a proposal that does not serve the public interest. It is a proposal that raises serious questions about accountability of what is a core function of the federal government and other governments.
At the end of the day I and other members of my caucus believe that when it comes to taxes and revenue collection we have to ensure there is a clear line of responsibility and accountability.
For us that means saying no to privatization. It means saying no to user fees and it means saying we believe in a system that ensures a responsibility and an involvement of local governments. That means saying no to a mega organization, a mega new bureaucracy that will be more distant from this House, more distant from members of parliament, more distant from the Canadian public. For those reasons we are opposed to Bill C-43.