Debates of Oct. 1st, 1998

Employment Insurance

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member does not quite understand something and that is that the Reform Party, as part of its program, said that the EI fund should be used to reduce the deficit. That is the Reform Party's program.

Let them understand that they are now swallowing themselves whole. Why are they swallowing themselves whole at this point? They are doing so in order to argue against health care, in order to argue against broad-based tax cuts, in order to argue against debt reduction. That is why they are doing it. We do not buy that.

[Paul Crête, Bloc, Kamouraska—Rivière-Du-Loup—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Mr. Speaker, these past few weeks, the Prime Minister has been making all sorts of plans to spend the billions of dollars accumulated in the employment insurance fund.

However, in reply to a letter I sent him, the auditor general said that “it would not be legal to use contributions or take money out of the fund for purposes other than those prescribed in the act”.

What does the Prime Minister have to say about the auditor general's statement, which confirms what the Bloc has told him repeatedly all week?

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, I can assure you that our government has always complied with the act. We are complying with the Employment Insurance Act.

It is absolutely unbelievable that one would keep insinuating that the government is not complying with the act. We do comply with the Employment Insurance Act.

Water Exports

[Lynn Myers, Liberal, Waterloo—Wellington, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Foreign Affairs. Once again the Ontario government has been approached by the Nova Group to get a permit to export large volumes of water from the Great Lakes.

Will the minister assure this House that he will put a stop to this massive export of our water?

[Julian Reed, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my hon. colleague for that question.

Water is of prime importance to this country. Canada stands opposed to bulk water exports. We are in the process of completing consultations with every province and we should have that done very soon. We will be laying out a comprehensive strategy on the issue this fall.

Hepatitis C

[Grant Hill, Reform, Macleod, AB]

Mr. Speaker, thanks to this federal health minister we have two classes of hepatitis C victims in Canada. We have his kind, half of which are left out in the cold, and then we have the kind in Ontario where every single individual will be looked after.

Why does the health minister not admit to everyone today that the only way his kind will get proper treatment is if they pack up and move to Ontario?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, it is obvious listening to this member that we take very different approaches. This member is someone who looks at the sick and thinks they should get cash. We look at those who are sick and think they should get care.

The hon. member insists on payment and we insist on treatment. When will this member understand that those who have hepatitis C do not want him to write them a cheque, they want to be written a prescription? Let me give an example.

In Ontario we cannot get Interferon, the only drug that is of any use, without paying $10,000, depending on your financial circumstances, and getting permission from the Minister of Health. We say that should—

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Macleod.

[Grant Hill, Reform, Macleod, AB]

Mr. Speaker, it is fascinating to listen to this story, but what the minister forgets is the individual left without anything, without a mortgage, without any life insurance, without access to this medication. This individual does not want this health minister. In fact he wants the Ontario health minister who has shown compassion, who has not given care or cash, but a proper compensation program. That is what he wants.

Why does he not do that?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, while this member and the Ontario minister of health pontificate politically about payment, people in Ontario cannot get Interferon which they need to treat their hepatitis C.

Not long ago two women from Windsor appeared before the Ontario legislature begging for access to Interferon. They have to wait weeks for the Ontario minister of health to give permission that it be furnished and then they have to pay up to $10,000 to get the drug.

I say that is wrong. That is why we on this side of the House want treatment. We want care, not cash. He is wrong and he knows it.

Bank Mergers

[Lorne Nystrom, NDP, Qu'Appelle, SK]

Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Finance. As the minister knows now, even the banker-friendly Senate banking committee has said that the question of the mergers of banks is not a question of life and death to the banks involved.

In light of that and in light of the growing opposition amongst the public to the question of the mergers of the big four banks in this country, I want to know from the Minister of Finance whether he will let parliament make a decision on whether the mergers should go ahead and not make the decision by himself.

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, as the hon. member knows, the House of Commons finance committee is now holding hearings on the MacKay report. As he also knows, the government has stated that following the reports of the Superintendent of Financial Institutions and the Competition Bureau the government will make a decision.

If that decision were to consider proceeding, there would be full public hearings—Commons and Senate public hearings.

[Lorne Nystrom, NDP, Qu'Appelle, SK]

Mr. Speaker, I think the time has come for a direct answer. We all know that a decision must be made sooner or later on the question of mergers, a yes or no decision.

I want to know whether that decision will rest in the hands of one man, the Minister of Finance, or whether parliament will have a chance to vote and make a decision on whether these mergers should proceed.

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, I have already answered the question. There will be full public hearings. The opposition I am sure can have opposition days. The opposition will be able to participate if it chooses.

In these national hearings there will be full opportunity for Canadians and every member of this House to express their views on the mergers.

Canada Pension Plan

[Scott Brison, Progressive Conservative, Kings—Hants, NS]

Mr. Speaker, we know the facts about the firing of Bernard Dussault. Mr. Dussault complained of being muzzled by the finance minister's information police. He was asked twice by John Palmer to change numbers in the CPP report because they would embarrass the minister. He complained of being stripped of his Dynacan computer program which was necessary to make accurate projections about the CPP.

I ask the Prime Minister: Was Bernard Dussault fired simply because he would not manipulate information for the political purposes of the finance minister?

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to be very clear on this question. The answer to the member's question is no.

I would like to correct the member with respect to the program he mentioned. It was a program that was requested by my department, human resources. It has nothing to do with the Department of Finance. We asked for that program. We wanted to compare his findings. It has nothing to do with the Department of Finance.

[Scott Brison, Progressive Conservative, Kings—Hants, NS]

Mr. Speaker, Bernard Dussault has been very clear in terms of his response to this issue. The fact is that it was the minister's department, along with the finance department, that put a case review committee in place to muzzle Bernard Dussault. The Department of Finance was robbing Bernard Dussault of his objective ability to complete his job and make independent assessments of the CPP.

Dussault objected and he was fired. What was this government trying to cover up about the Canada pension plan and why was John Palmer so concerned about CPP projections that he wanted to change the information so as not to embarrass the minister?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, Mr. Palmer has denied those allegations categorically.

I will quote again from his statement: “—there have been no differences regarding the professional work of his Division—which is to calculate the actuarial liabilities of public pension plans”.

What he said was that there was a list of differences between Mr. Dussault and other members of OSFI management. He has further gone on to say that he regards his own independence, that of the Superintendent—

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Durham.

Information Highway

[Alex Shepherd, Liberal, Durham, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the industry minister. More and more Canadians are accessing their business using the information highway. Many of these people fear that their personal information will be misused.

What is the minister doing to protect these citizens of Canada?

[John Manley, Liberal, Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, we have today laid before parliament an important additional building block in the government's strategy for promoting electronic commerce. We have today tabled legislation which will protect the privacy of personal information which is retained in digital or electronic form. We are one of the first countries to do so.

I believe this legislation will give consumers the confidence they should have that the kinds of information they often disclose to banks and to businesses in the private sector will be fully protected.

Apec Summit

[Bob Mills, Reform, Red Deer, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I thought we held our press conferences outside.

The experiences that we have had this past week and particularly this morning regarding APEC are just disgusting. We have seen the Prime Minister's lawyers stonewalling. We have seen cabinet ministers covering up. We have seen government MPs whipped into submission in committees.

Democracy in this country is truly in trouble. I wonder what is so wrong with this Prime Minister simply telling—

[The Speaker]

The hon. Solicitor General.

[Andy Scott, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, the Public Complaints Commission has dealt with thousands of cases over the last 10 years. We have never heard from the opposition before on this. It is quite a spectacle to see members of the opposition falling all over themselves trying to take political advantage of a very serious situation that the Public Complaints Commission will be dealing with starting Monday. I wish they would let it do its job and put their political ambitions behind.

Canadian Coast Guard

[Yves Rocheleau, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans.

Starting December 21, the Canadian Coast Guard will be charging a new icebreaking fee in eastern Canada. By imposing this service charge on the whole region, the government is putting Quebec in the same boat as the Atlantic provinces.

Considering that 80% of marine traffic is on the St. Lawrence River, does the minister realize that Quebec will end up paying most of the icebreaking fees for the maritime provinces and Newfoundland?