Then I suspect, Mr. Speaker, you will be just as generous in interpreting what I am about to say because there are very clearly some people misleading the Canadian public on this issue.
The hon. member just spoke about this being a political game. It is absolutely clear that is exactly what this is. To see the the unholy alliance lining up is really quite remarkable.
I refer to November 1985 when the member for Burnaby—Douglas described Bill C-65, which established the public complaints commission, as taking us out of the dark ages. Those are his words. Today that same member is trying to marginalize the public complaints commission. He is trying to suggest that in some obscure way this commission is unfair. It is clearly remarkable to see members opposite, lawyers opposite, standing up and simply fighting for money for lawyers.
The young lawyer who represented the students and who walked out with them claimed that he had fees in excess of $80,000. I would like to see the dockets. I would like to examine the billings. What is going on here? This is not a court of law. The members opposite know that.
The hon. leader of the New Democratic Party made reference to the fact that inquiries in the past had intervener funding provided. She used the example of the Dubin inquiry. Let us talk about that. Canadians know what that was. That was the alleged Ben Johnson affair, the investigation into the use of drugs by athletes. There were accusations. There were charges. The inquiry is named after Chief Justice Dubin. He sat in a judicial inquiry role. He had people who were accused of breaking the law come before him. Of course there would be legal representation for someone who was accused of breaking the law.
This is not a judicial inquiry. The Canadian public understands that, in spite of the nonsense and the rhetoric that goes on around here about their poor rights being taken away.
It is amazing to see members from the Reform Party stand up as great champions of human rights. It is really quite remarkable. This is the party that has repeatedly told this government to get rid of the court challenges program. It has called for that. The question which should be on the minds of Canadians, recognizing the the court challenges program provides assistance to people involved in a court procedure, not simply a commission, is how can this party claim that there is no need to provide legal funding for disadvantaged individuals and groups involved in actual litigation and now turn around and claim that we need special funding for a public complaints commission.
What is the commission? This public complaints commission was set up to receive complaints from the public about the actions of the RCMP. Members know that. But it is in the interests of the members in the opposition to try to mark up the Prime Minister or the government. The proof that this is a political game and a political football is here. If we look at the photograph in the Toronto Star Thursday, October 15, under the headline “Students quit APEC inquiry”, the byline says: “Stage Walkout: Two members of the Raging Grannies lead APEC demonstrators Jonathan Oppenheim and Garth Mullins out of RCMP commission hearings in Vancouver yesterday”. If we look carefully at the photograph we see behind one of the students the hon. member for Burnaby—Douglas. Was he advising these students? Was he counselling them?
The Reform member does not seem to get the point. The difference quite clearly is that this is politically staged. He is virtually walking out arm and arm with the students. He is giving them advice. He is encouraging them to leave. Then he gets the grannies to walk out in front. It is a wonderful photo op. Do they think the Canadian people are stupid? They can see what is going on. They can see that they are abusing the system attempting to create some issue. It is scandal envy. They sees the press and the Republicans.
The Reform Party gets all its advice and policies from south of the border. We all know that. It sees the scandal, the media attention and everything going on with President Clinton. Reformers imagine getting the Prime Minister subpoenaed to appear in front of a commission. They want to twist this around to try to create some kind of false sense of scandal.
Should we simply believe that rhetoric or perhaps would it be more appropriate to believe the latest witness reported in the media who came to the commission? This is University of British Columbia Professor Chris Gallagher. Should we believe him? He said: “It seems there was no other alternative. From my perspective it appeared that pepper spray was used where it had to be”.
I do not know if Gallagher is right. What we want to see happen here is have the public complaints commission do its job. This is not a court of law. This is not a judicial inquiry. The students have been charged with nothing. We are not talking about their legal rights being in jeopardy. They are witnesses. They have been asked to come forward and tell this commission, duly established by parliament in 1986, in their own words and based on their memory what happened.
Mr. Gallagher who was a witness within 45 meters of the actual events describes how a fence was torn down and students were clamouring to get over the fence. He goes on to describe how there was no punching, no kicking and no physical activity in the sense of hitting any of these demonstrators. They used pepper spray. I do not know if it is appropriate to use this. I am not a commissioner on the complaints commission.
However, the feeding frenzy that is going on over here is totally laughable. If the opposition had any idea how foolish it looks in attempting to portray this as some kind of White House, oval office scandal, it is absolute nonsense.
This commission has integrity and an international reputation for fairness and for examining the issues. It has paid counsel available to advise and to ensure that witnesses are not intimidated and that their rights are protected.
I submit to this House and to the Canadian people that what we see here is purely opposition politics, tactics that perhaps I am not totally unfamiliar with having spent time in opposition in the Ontario legislature, but based on absolute nonsense and no facts. Let the commission do its job.
I reiterate that these students are not before a judge, not before a court of law and not in jeopardy of being charged for having their legal rights violated in any way whatsoever.