Madam Speaker, as my hon. colleague said, this is really a speech that we have to take with a grain of salt from what I have heard.
Reform's 1995 taxpayers' budget, which Reformers have cited so many times, called for $3 billion worth of cuts in transfers to the provinces for health, education and welfare. Their plan also called for a further $3.6 billion to cuts in other transfers, including equalization payments. On top of that, the $7.4 billion that the Reform wanted to slash from programs was funded directly by the federal government such as seniors pensions, employment insurance and an additional $1 billion worth of cuts to social security spending. That is $15 billion worth of cuts in social programs. I think the member is talking through his hat.