Debates of Oct. 8th, 1998

Apec Summit

[Andy Scott, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, quite the contrary. Many times in the House I have discussed my faith in the public complaints commission and how important that instrument is as a civilian oversight instrument. I discuss it regularly. I believe in the process and I wish members would let it work.

[Richard Marceau, Bloc, Charlesbourg, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister said yesterday that, had the solicitor general spoken of the Airbus affair in the plane, he would have dealt differently with him.

Could the Prime Minister explain why discussion of the Airbus scandal is serious enough to warrant dismissing the minister, while discussion of the APEC matter, which is also under investigation, is not serious and he will do nothing? Why the double standard?

[Andy Scott, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, as I have said many times, I did not discuss anything inappropriate. That has been substantiated by the gentleman who sat beside me.

I talked about the public complaints commission and that I had all the faith in the world in that commission, and I have.

[Richard Marceau, Bloc, Charlesbourg, QC]

Mr. Speaker, how can it be that a minister who does not know better than to talk about his business in public could have sufficient judgement to know that what he said can be prejudicial to an inquiry?

[Andy Scott, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, I would never say anything that would be prejudicial to the process or to an ongoing investigation.

I can speak very proudly of the civilian oversight history in this country. The public complaints commission is a part of that, I support that commission and I wish members would let it do its work.

[Dick Proctor, NDP, Palliser, SK]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday in this House both the Prime Minister and the solicitor general accused me of fabricating my story.

I stand in my place today to tell this House and the Canadian people I swear now that I am telling the truth. I would swear under oath that I am telling the truth. The solicitor general, better than anyone else, knows what happened.

Will he now withdraw his allegation?

[Andy Scott, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, on the contrary. The member for Palliser made serious allegations based on his eavesdropping on a private conversation on a noisy aircraft.

That report has been discredited. I denied those allegations with the support of the person to whom I was speaking. I think it is reprehensible that an hon. member would stoop to this kind of tactic.

[Dick Proctor, NDP, Palliser, SK]

Mr. Speaker, far more in sadness than in anger I say that the solicitor general continues to question my honesty.

I give the minister one more chance to withdraw these allegations, or is he calling me a liar?

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

The question as put is in order.

[Andy Scott, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, as I said, the hon. member has taken snippets of a conversation that he eavesdropped on and put them together as facts.

There are many inaccuracies in that report. He suggested I had said something that would prejudice the process or outcome of the public complaints commission.

It has been established by the person sitting beside me that was not the case. I stand by my story.

[Elsie Wayne, Progressive Conservative, Saint John, NB]

Mr. Speaker, when it suits the Prime Minister he likes to use the words of the member for Palliser to defend the solicitor general. The member for Palliser is reported as saying: “The solicitor general lied in the House of Commons”.

[The Speaker]

Colleagues, we are not allowed to use words in this House used by someone else outside the House that we ourselves are not allowed to use. I want the hon. member to withdraw that statement and I would like her to go directly to her question, please.

[Elsie Wayne, Progressive Conservative, Saint John, NB]

Mr. Speaker, I will withdraw and I will go directly to the question.

Why has the solicitor general not taken the very action the Prime Minister has threatened to take in the past if the statements made by the member for Palliser are not true? Is it because the solicitor general's friend, Fred Toole, would not be able to corroborate the solicitor general's version of the remarks he made about APEC under oath?

[Andy Scott, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, as I said, the member for Palliser alleged that I had said something that would compromise the Public Complaints Commission exercise both by way of process and by way of the outcome, and I denied that. That denial has been substantiated by the person with whom I was speaking on the airplane.

[Elsie Wayne, Progressive Conservative, Saint John, NB]

Mr. Speaker, only the solicitor general and the Prime Minister believe the solicitor general's changing versions of his APEC chat in the air. They use the statements made by the member for Palliser to defend the solicitor general when it suits them and deny or refuse to confirm other statements when it does not.

Why will the Prime Minister not stop letting the solicitor general undermine that office and the smidgen of integrity that is left in this government and ask the solicitor general to resign?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I want to reiterate that the Prime Minister, the government and the caucus have confidence in the minister. He is a fine minister and he is doing a good job.

I guess the hon. member does not care about veterans any more. What happened to her priority with respect to veterans? What happened to her party's concern about the economy? Is that all she has to talk about is this issue, which has been more than adequately and effectively answered by the solicitor general?

[Chuck Strahl, Reform, Fraser Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday the Prime Minister stood in his place and said “I could not have a better witness than the member for Palliser”. He then said that he was nothing but a snoop and tried to discredit him.

Today I think the Prime Minister should change his mind one more time. Will he change his mind and now ask for the resignation of the solicitor general?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I want to reiterate that the Prime Minister has no intention of doing that. I know there is a new unholy alliance between the Reform Party and the other right wing parties, the Conservatives and the NDP, but that does not make what they are saying right.

[Chuck Strahl, Reform, Fraser Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the member for Palliser stood in this place and vowed that he would swear under oath to the veracity of his statements.

The solicitor general has not denied the statements and will not testify under oath. Meanwhile the lawyer for the students has said that the testimony of the solicitor general has compromised the commission and is asking for it to be shut down.

Will the solicitor general do the right thing, realize he has compromised his position as well as the commission's and resign?

[Andy Scott, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, the situation here is extremely clear.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[Andy Scott, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

Mr. Speaker, I could not have imagined that in this country the principles of fundamental justice could be parked so eagerly in the interest of political theatre.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the only thing that is perfectly clear in this matter is that the version given by the Solicitor General, who is trying to save his skin, contradicts the version of the hon. member, who has nothing to gain except bringing out the truth.

How—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.