Debates of Oct. 9th, 1998

United States Immigration Act

[Carmen Provenzano, Liberal, Sault Ste. Marie, ON]

I wish to thank the Minister of Foreign Affairs for the leadership role he has played and his effective efforts in lobbying the American Congress and Senate for a Canadian exemption to this ill-conceived legislation. It appears that the American Congress is now listening, albeit in the 11th hour, to the legitimate concerns and objections raised on Canada's behalf by our Minister of Foreign Affairs.

The Senate

[Rob Anders, Reform, Calgary West, AB]

Mr. Speaker, if I had one reason to reform the Senate, that would be worthy of consideration. If I had 10 reasons, surely that would merit even more serious consideration. Today I have not one, not 10, but 7,009 reasons for Senate reform.

Point one: So 7,000 petitions from Alberta brought by QR77's Dave Rutherford get a hearing before they go into the Prime Minister's trash bin.

Point two: So Canadians are not lying when they say live in a democracy.

Point three: So Plato and Socrates do not role over in their graves.

Point four: So the world can see that Canada is not a banana republic run by a pepper eating dictator.

Point five: So Canadians can hold senators like Andrew Thompson directly accountable for subsidized siestas.

Point six: So senators do not get pensions they have not shown up to earn.

Point seven: So senators feel more inclined to show up for their 65 day work year.

Point eight: So citizens across the country are treated equally.

Point nine: So Liberals can no longer appoint their hacks and bagmen who fail to get elected.

Point ten: So 91% of Albertans get the respect they deserve.

Jacob And Mathew Brown

[Ian Murray, Liberal, Lanark—Carleton, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to take this opportunity to highlight the selfless contribution of two young individuals from Carleton Place in my riding.

For the past four years Jacob and Mathew Brown, aged 8 and 10, have forgone their birthday presents in favour of family and friends making a donation to breast cancer research. In addition, the two brothers have been making beaded jewellery to be sold at local craft fairs. Jacob's and Mathew's altruistic acts have amounted to donations of over $1,700 to breast cancer research.

This year it is estimated that close to 20,000 Canadian women will contract breast cancer. The cause is unknown and it cannot be prevented.

Only by funding research can we hope to find the cure for this horrible disease.

Mathew and Jacob have asked me to pass along this message to Canada: Children can make a difference. They ask everyone to take up the challenge to help defeat breast cancer.

I congratulate these two boys on their continuing dedication to an important cause.

International Day For The Elimination Of Poverty

[Libby Davies, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Mr. Speaker, October 17 is the International Day for the Elimination of Poverty.

Sadly, I do not rise today to mark our progress toward achieving that goal; I rise to lament government inaction and the increasing poverty that stems from it.

In Canada more than five million Canadians live below the poverty line. And, shamefully, this does not include aboriginal peoples on reserves where social assistance does not even cover the basic costs for food.

As we mark this day, homelessness is reaching epidemic proportions.

In my riding of Vancouver East too many people are dealing with the daily dilemmas of heart-wrenching poverty: where to sleep; what to eat; how to face the hopelessness in their children's eyes.

There are immediate steps that this government can take: amend the Human Rights Act to include poverty as a prohibited grounds for discrimination; declare a national emergency on homelessness; stop the federal retreat from social housing; begin to replenish the billions cut from social spending.

Let us make this October 17 the beginning of real action to eliminate poverty.

Davie Industries

[Antoine Dubé, Bloc, Lévis, QC]

Mr. Speaker, because of the federal government's delay in acting on requests to secure financing for the Spirit of Columbus and Amethyst drilling platforms, on August 11, Dominion Bridge Inc. sought bankruptcy protection.

Since its current contracts are worth over $300 million, Davie Industries was granted an extension, until October 26, to meet the receiver's requirements.

Since time is of the essence for the 1,000 shipyard workers in Lévis and their families, I once again call upon the Liberal government to take action on this issue and provide its share of the financial guarantees requested by Davie Industries.

I also call upon all socio-economic stakeholders in the Quebec City and Chaudière-Appalaches areas to continue to show solidarity for the shipyard in Lévis.

United Nations Secretary General

[Marlene Jennings, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday the hon. member for Beauharnois—Salaberry selectively quoted United Nations Secretary General Kofi Annan on the matter of secession.

In fact, what the secretary general said was: If the supreme court judgement requires a clear majority, if the majority of Quebeckers opt for secession, and if your constitution recognizes their right to do so, we too will have to grant that recognition.

The secretary general is therefore referring to a clear majority of Quebeckers on secession, and not a vague notion like sovereignty-association. He is referring to a secession negotiated within the framework of the Canadian Constitution, not unilateral secession.

In fact, he is saying exactly the same thing as the Government of Canada has been saying over and over again for the past two and one-half years. He added—

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for New Brunswick Southwest.

United States Immigration Act

[Greg Thompson, Progressive Conservative, Charlotte, NB]

Mr. Speaker, while in Washington this week I met with several congressional leaders both from the Senate and the U.S. Congress.

We now know that we have a 30 month reprieve in relation to section 110 of the U.S. Immigration Act. However, this is not a permanent solution. What we need is a permanent solution.

What I am asking is for the Government of Canada to pursue vigorously a permanent solution to section 110 of the U.S. Immigration Act.

We enjoy the biggest trading relationship in the world between Canada and the United States. We want this resolved on a permanent basis.

Canadian Economy

[Réginald Bélair, Liberal, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Mr. Speaker, this morning Statistics Canada has shown us that the Canadian economy is doing well, despite the shrill opposition predictions of catastrophe. In September, the number of jobs rose approximately 73,000, which raises the number of additional jobs over the year to 264,000. According to this same report, the unemployment rate remained unchanged at 8.3%.

Yesterday, the Conference Board identified some indicators that are a source of optimism for 1999. According to this most reputable body, the economy can count on real wage increases, strong exports and low interest rates, which will encourage business investment and, as a result, bolster our economy against the negative impact of the world financial crisis.

There is no doubt that the priorities of the Liberal government were the right ones: fiscal consolidation, elimination of the deficit, and the creation of favourable conditions for—

[The Speaker]

I am sorry to interrupt the hon. member. We now move on to Oral Question Period.

Solicitor General Of Canada

[Chuck Strahl, Reform, Fraser Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, last week the solicitor general publicly discussed a business relationship between Elmer MacKay and Karlheinz Schreiber of Airbus fame, something no one in the country knew about. Not even Mr. MacKay's son. Not even Mr. Schreiber's lawyer in Edmonton. There is only one way that the solicitor general could have known about this relationship, and that is because of an ongoing RCMP investigation.

The proof is in. The solicitor general publicly compromised an ongoing RCMP investigation. Will the government do the right thing? Will the government ask for his resignation?

[Andy Scott, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, the operational activities of the RCMP are clearly under the purview of the RCMP. I do not involve myself in those operations. I would not know about those operations. I would not discuss those operations.

The allegations that were made earlier this week, I responded to those. My response has been supported. The rest of that conversation was a private conversation between myself and another Canadian citizen.

[Chuck Strahl, Reform, Fraser Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, this is a very serious and new charge against the solicitor general. There is no spin. There is no interpretation. There is no excuse for what has happened.

The solicitor general publicly commented upon and has now jeopardized an ongoing RCMP investigation. The only reason the solicitor general had this information was because he was trusted with this information by the RCMP, and he has broken that trust.

Will the government do the right thing and ask for the solicitor general's immediate resignation?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the premise of the hon. member's question is unwarranted, as explained by the solicitor general. Therefore the direct answer to the hon. member's question is no.

[Chuck Strahl, Reform, Fraser Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, this is hard to believe. I do not know what it takes for the government to see wrong when it is staring it in the face.

The solicitor general knew of a business relationship between Karlheinz Schreiber and Elmer MacKay. Now the only way he knew that information was because he was trusted with that information by the RCMP. Then the solicitor general spoke publicly about confidential information given to him in trust by the RCMP.

What does it take? He has to go. Demand his resignation. What does it take?

[Andy Scott, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, as I said categorically, and I will say it again, information that is acquired in an operational exercise by the RCMP or any agency is not information that I am privy to. It is not information that I am involved with. I would not know it. If I did know it I would not talk about it.

[Randy White, Reform, Langley—Abbotsford, BC]

Mr. Speaker, this was not a private conversation, now, was it?

The solicitor general's loose lips let a closely guarded secret slip, basically a business relationship uncovered in the ongoing Airbus investigation that no one else in the country knew about. No one else, with the exception of the RCMP.

If putting an RCMP investigation in jeopardy is not worthy of a resignation, just what is?

[Andy Scott, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, as I said, I would never discuss an RCMP investigation under any circumstances. I am not involved in them. It is the purview of the RCMP.

The allegations that were made this week were by the member for Palliser. I responded to those allegations. I was supported by the person who sat beside me on the aircraft. I stand by my statement.

[Randy White, Reform, Langley—Abbotsford, BC]

Mr. Speaker, are we all listening to this? He did not discuss the Airbus situation.

Do the names Elmer Mackay and Karlheinz Schreiber mean anything at all to the solicitor general? Why does the government not just wake up and demand this fellow's resignation right now?

[Andy Scott, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, my answer is very clear and very categorical. The fact remains that the internal operations of the RCMP are the purview of the RCMP. I would not involve myself. I would not know about it.

The rest of the conversation, beyond the allegations to which I have responded, is a private conversation.

[Suzanne Tremblay, Bloc, Rimouski—Mitis, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Solicitor General.

Yesterday, the member for Palliser swore under oath in the House that he was telling the truth about the Solicitor General's remarks he heard on the airplane. He even challenged the Solicitor General to prove otherwise, but the minister ducked the issue once again.

Why is the Solicitor General refusing to rise in the House and swear under oath that he is telling the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the member for Palliser did not swear a formal oath in the House.

I would like members to take a look at yesterday's Ottawa Citizen in which reporters replicated the situation that is the matter of controversy. They said:

The plane vibrates, the engines drone, and the ventilation system creates a constant, breathy whirr.

A citizen reporter—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

The hon. Deputy Prime Minister.

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Windsor West, ON]

Mr. Speaker, to continue droning my answer, the Citizen article says “a Citizen reporter playing Mr. Proctor's eavesdropping role on two unsuspecting passengers sitting opposite” said the two men obviously knew each other and spoke sporadically, “but much of their discourse is lost in the din”.

Here is some independent evidence about the circumstances leading to this controversy in the House. I suggest hon. members take a look at the Citizen to see what happened when current reporters tried to take notes of a conversation under the circumstance raised by the member for Palliser. They could not do it. They—