Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased to rise to speak to Bill C-56 which is somewhat different from other bills that have gone forward in relation to Indian treaty land claims.
It is a huge area of land to be transferred. It is something like 1,100,629 hectares and covers much of the northern part of Manitoba. Although we are talking about one specific band right now, it will include more with the total land claim.
The $76 million being provided is not a large amount, but I would agree with the hon. member on the government side who just mentioned speed. We in the Reform Party would like to see that an additional amount of land could be added to the particular reserve with speed so that some of the items outlined in the bill could be accomplished in a hurry. With that in mind, I think we will find support from the official opposition.
We agree that there are historical obligations. There is no question about that. Across Canada most people agree fundamentally that we should honour those treaties and it is time we got at it. We in the Reform Party are no different. We agree with that as well. We have these historical obligations. As the hon. member mentioned, this land will be added as quickly as possible to the reserve status.
The term self-reliance is a very important one. It is up to the government and all Canadians to see that self-reliance in fact takes place. However we do have some questions. I have some questions in particular within my own constituency. I would like the term self-government to mean the same thing for the settlement of a land treaty in Saskatchewan or one in northern Manitoba.
I am concerned that in this negotiation, the acquisition of land and the establishment of new reserves we could have different types of government for first nations. At the same time we would then have a quasi-judicial group of people not falling under the same piece of legislation.
It is incumbent upon the government to give us some idea and to give Canadians some idea of what the new partnership it talks of is about. I believe they are being sincere about that. I believe they are talking about a new partnership, a new way or a new understanding. To me partnership means a new understanding as well.
What puzzles me with land treaty agreements is that no one seems to be able to identify what is meant by self-government, as the hon. member mentioned. Is it right from reading the bill that self-government is up for negotiation by each of the land claims? As a new reserve is established or land is added to a reserve in my constituency, in moving toward self-government is it a negotiating matter, much like when they are given money to buy new land, which land is acquired through an agreement of the seller? Nobody quarrels with that, but as the land moves over into the reserve and falls away from the tax base, is there any compensation for the loss of another type of self-government, the municipal government?
We do not seem to have anything carved in stone or concrete about what we mean by the term self-government. I support the bill wholeheartedly. It was a long time coming. I believe it was started in 1977 and here we are 21 years later. That is nothing anyone can be proud of.
To be quite open with the government opposite, it is incumbent that the rest of Canada knows or has some idea in the settlement of treaty lands what is being negotiated. I have five reserves in my constituency and I know these people. I have 43 rural municipalities. They are all subject to one set of rural municipal law and regulations. I cannot imagine in rural Saskatchewan the government functioning without an act, some guidelines or some frames of reference. It just would not work. I think the hon. gentlemen opposite understand that.
If we are to have a new partnership then that partnership is between the new governments and the rest of Canada: other municipal governments, the provincial governments and with the federal government. Until that is clearly spelled out that partnership is an unknown quantity. This concerns Canadians.
I mentioned the other day that I first worked among the Nisga'a people the second year of teaching school. I was there with my wife. It was a great time. They were great people. I made a return visit there. I talked to the people I hunted moose with and the fellow who cut my hair. I had more hair then; I needed a barber. I asked them at that time what they wanted from self-government. They were not quite sure in this partnership. For instance, one chap was very interested in an economic venture.
If my hon. colleague opposite who just spoke to the bill and I were going into a business agreement, we would have to follow the business agreement criteria set out in the province in which we were working. I think he understands that. If we were to be in negotiation with the local RM, we would have to appear before that RM.
I understand that for people wishing to come on to reserve status land and wishing to enter an agreement need some government. There also needs to be rules in which they can operate and in which the other people coming in can operate. We could have all kinds of different agreements and arrangements without a clear definition of the statutory laws that must be in place. It would not be healthy for any first nation not to have some consistency.
In talking to these people I find that this is exactly what they want. They want to break from their traditional past. They want self-government but they want it from the grassroots up like in the recent municipal elections in Saskatchewan where so many are elected each year and follow the guidelines within the municipal act. We understand that.
I agree with the use and control of their lands as they see fit. We agree with that. We agree that a municipality, a city or a town can pass bylaws in control of their land. There will not be any opposition or quarrelling in that regard, but there will be strict management rules as was mentioned in a statement of another hon. colleague. Once that applies and if I live in the RM of 40 in southern Saskatchewan I must follow certain management rules of that RM. Therefore, if I move into another RM, for example No. 72, the same set of rules apply. Then there would be continuity. In this partnership we have an understanding not only among natives but among other citizens in Canada.
I like the term the hon. member used respecting accountability and safeguards being in place. In order to have accountability and safeguards in place we must move immediately to establish the groundwork of self-government.
We must have accountability. They are crying out for accountability. All Canadians are crying out for accountability, yet more and more we are moving away from accountability. The further government gets from people, the less accountability there seems to be.
While I agree with the bill and while I will be supporting it I do not support the continuance of further legislation unless the House has some idea of a bill or of anything else that may be used to describe the situation so all Canadians will know what we are negotiating. Are we negotiating self-government with each individual parcel? Does self-government mean the same with the Nisga'a as it does with the Norway House Cree? These are questions Canadians are asking. Can the hon. gentleman opposite answer those questions or does each individual Cree nation become a separate identity in itself where the laws and regulations regarding the people will not be governed by some other source?
It seems we are going down a trail in terms of future development, which may include mineral development or whatever, where there will be all kinds of lawsuits open to ourselves and all kinds of lawsuits open to the first nations unless we put together some kind of package. They cannot be sovereign unto themselves. That is not what Canadians understand. Canadians understand that the Government of Saskatchewan is not sovereign unto itself. They understand that its capital city of Regina is not sovereign and that it must fall under provincial jurisdiction.
There is a big vacuum out there, a big void in which we have no other answers. I wish we could have some. The hon. member just spoke very well on Bill C-56 and I wish we could discuss these issues. They are very important issues not just for the development of the new land treaties but important for the rest of us in Canada to know where we are going. It is incumbent on us that we do not proceed within a huge vacuum of misunderstanding concerning the meaning of self-government.
Reform will be supporting the bill and we are pleased to support it but we also raise the question being raised from coast to coast to coast of why we do not get down and finalize what accountability and partnership mean. Accountability and partnership mean nothing until we define what we mean by self-government.