Debates of Nov. 17th, 1998

Financial Institutions

[Odina Desrochers, Bloc, Lotbinière, QC]

Mr. Speaker, according to the word going round in the papers, it would appear that some of Canada's chartered banks are boycotting Quebec bonds.

We learn in fact that neither the Bank of Montreal nor the Royal Bank have any Government of Quebec bonds. And yet, they have $1.4 billion worth of federal bonds and over $420 million in bonds issued by five provincial governments elsewhere in Canada.

It is a scandal that the financial institutions wanting our savings cannot even be bothered to invest them here.

I am sure this information will give a number of people who were perhaps thinking of doing business with these banks cause for reflection.

Fisheries

[Mark Muise, Progressive Conservative, West Nova, NS]

Mr. Speaker, this coming Saturday has been designated as World Fisheries Day. It is important that Canadians and the rest of the world recognize the importance of the fishery in our economies and the devastating consequences that will result if we do not start doing a better job at protecting this industry.

The collapse of the northern cod fishery is a prime example of what can occur when we take fishing stocks for granted. The results are that thousands of fishers have been forced out of the fishery, bringing to an end a way of life that has survived for generations.

I am not convinced that our fisheries minister has learned anything from past mistakes. For months now I have tried to focus his attention on the serious illegal lobster activity going on in West Nova. The minister is intent on believing that the problem has been addressed.

Fishers, along with regional DFO officials, continue to tell me otherwise. It continues to be a serious problem that must be addressed before the lucrative West Nova lobster industry goes by the wayside like the northern cod fishery.

Simcoe—Grey

[Paul Bonwick, Liberal, Simcoe—Grey, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I rise today to make you, our Prime Minister, my colleagues in the House and in fact all of Canada aware of one of the greatest economic opportunities in industry.

The opportunity I speak of is Simcoe—Grey. Simcoe—Grey is situated in the most beautiful part of southwestern Ontario and indeed all of Canada. We are strategically located within a two hour drive of well over 10 million people.

We also have access to a variety of university and college campuses. These facts, coupled with a group of mayors and councillors that are willing to work with business, make my riding an ideal investment opportunity.

I ask industry officials to think of the potential: the third largest market area in North America, skilled labour pools, open for business attitude and a quality of life second to none.

On behalf of the residents of Simcoe—Grey I say please visit our riding. We are open for business.

Poverty

[Diane Ablonczy, Reform, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the living conditions of the very poorest in Canada are worse now than in a very long time. The numbers of the homeless continue to rise and the line-ups at food banks grow longer. Aboriginals living on reserves are often living in third world conditions. After tax incomes remain well below individual incomes of the 1980s.

Next week several Canadian anti-poverty groups are visiting the United Nations to point out that for too many Canada is not the best country in the world in which to live.

The government has shamed Canadians by ignoring UN questions about our social problems for two years. When it finally had to submit a report, the government simply refused to answer some of the strongest concerns.

Yet the government sits on $10 billion in overtaxation for the first six months of this fiscal year alone. Why does the government continue to overtax and cut services to the most disadvantaged in our society?

Education

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I rise today to applaud the achievements of the two universities in my riding of Kitchener—Waterloo.

In this year's Maclean's magazine annual ranking of Canadian universities our reputation thrives. The University of Waterloo is considered the best overall comprehensive university and Wilfrid Laurier is the fourth best overall primarily undergraduate university.

U of W is considered the best overall, the most innovative and ranks highest for the leaders of tomorrow. Within comprehensive schools it ranks first for the average entering grade and student awards.

In its category Wilfrid Laurier ranks first in the proportion of students with 75% or higher and second in average entering grade.

Post-secondary education is the key to our future prosperity as a nation. The tangible commitment our Liberal government has included increased funding for granting councils, centres of excellence, improvements to the Canada student loans program, the millennium scholarship fund, research infrastructure renewal and the Canada Foundation for Innovation.

I congratulate both universities for their excellent standing in this annual survey and commend them for always striving to be better.

[Nelson Riis, NDP, Kamloops, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I acknowledge the great contribution made to the economy and society of British Columbia by the University College of the Cariboo.

The University College of the Cariboo created a cult of innovation for young entrepreneurs and investors throughout the central part of British Columbia. It developed a culture of openness, welcoming students from over 21 different countries to study and to enrich the educational atmosphere of that university college.

Its programs from degree granting to training and upgrading reflect the totality of the British Columbia economy. The plans of the University College of the Cariboo reflect a changing economy, a very innovative university college to meet the demands of the ever changing economy of the 21st century.

It is a model for the rest of Canada and provides the kind of educational experience that truly reflects the realities of the new millennium and the true realities of a knowledge based economy.

Finance

[Preston Manning, Reform, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, for yet another year the auditor general has refused to sign off on the finance minister's accounting trickery.

The auditor general says the finance minister is improperly billing the taxpayer today for spending that will not happen for years. He objects to the finance minister's trying to hide billions of dollars from Canadians who want tax relief and debt reduction today.

What is the point of even having an auditor general when this finance minister simply laughs in his face and ignores his recommendations?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, the accounting procedure that was followed in this case is the one followed in the private sector. It is more open and transparent than that which has been recommended by the auditor general in the public sector.

We believe government has a responsibility to be as open and transparent as possible. That is why we booked the liability as soon as it was incurred.

[Preston Manning, Reform, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, the auditor general has pointed out that the finance minister is billing Canadian taxpayers for programs that have not even started yet.

If a private business were to book expenses that have not yet been made to hide the true size of its profit, the revenue minister would have that business in court.

Why should the finance minister be allowed to get away with accounting practices which would land a taxpayer in court or in jail?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition is wrong on both counts. In fact, the millennium foundation has been set up. Second, it happens all the time in the private sector that when obligations or liabilities are incurred they are booked.

[Preston Manning, Reform, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, the finance minister is playing a shell game with the money of Canadian taxpayers. He pads expenses with future projects to make the surplus look smaller so he can say there is no money for tax relief. He cuts $7 billion out of health care, gives $2 billion back and thinks no one will notice there is $5 billion missing.

Does the finance minister actually think these kinds of shell games will fool anyone other than gullible Liberal backbenchers?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, the real difference of opinion between us and Reform is how that money was spent.

The last budget was one of the most important education budgets ever brought forth by the government. We gave students a tax credit on their deductions. At the same time we gave single parents a $3,000 grant.

Reform in its taxpayers' budget said it would take $200 million out of education.

[Deborah Grey, Reform, Edmonton North, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the finance minister should do card tricks the way he talks his way around things.

The government knows the auditor general is the top watchdog in the country to look after the government's books and he should obey them. He has not done that. Businesses and home owners would not be allowed to cook their books the way the government has.

I ask the revenue minister, because he would be so happy to sue anybody who took after this kind of bookkeeping, will he stand in his place right now and say that the way the finance minister is cooking his books is wrong, plain and simple?

[Herb Dhaliwal, Liberal, Minister of National Revenue]

Mr. Speaker, this finance minister is the best finance minister we have ever had. We are very proud of the work he has done. Members opposite should be embarrassed to ask the questions they have asked of this finance minister.

[Deborah Grey, Reform, Edmonton North, AB]

Mr. Speaker, in the words of one great Canadian philosopher, beauty fades but stunned is forever.

This minister knows that when one cooks the books in a business—

[The Speaker]

A few years ago we had reference to Shakespeare. We are coming a bit close. I ask the hon. member to watch her language.

[Deborah Grey, Reform, Edmonton North, AB]

Mr. Speaker, long live the king.

The auditor general has refused to sign off on the government's books. It can try to discuss that away but it simply will not work. If the auditor refused to sign off on a private company's books Revenue Canada would move in, the management would be fired and there would be an investigation.

I again ask this question of the revenue minister and I would like an answer. Should Canadian businesses be allowed to operate their books the way the finance minister has been, thinking he is against the law?

[Herb Dhaliwal, Liberal, Minister of National Revenue]

Mr. Speaker, obviously the hon. member does not know much about business.

When business people have liabilities those liabilities are booked. Those liabilities are banked whenever they exist. She should do her homework. She should talk to business people and find out how they do their accounting. Obviously she does not know a lot about business.

Budget Surplus

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday in this House the Minister of Finance confirmed his desire to continue to dip illegally into the employment insurance fund and admitted that he had deliberately underestimated the size of the budget surplus.

He said, and I quote:

—our projections would not be of our optimum performance, but of our minimum.

Why does the minister assess his surpluses at a minimum, while dipping into the employment insurance fund to a scandalous and immoral maximum?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, what I said yesterday, and what I say again today, is that we intend to proceed in a balanced manner. Every year since we came into power, we have cut employment insurance contributions. Last year, we reduced taxes and put money into the sectors of the future.

This is an approach that works and one we will continue to use.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, speaking of balance, one month ago the Minister of Finance was telling us there would not be a budget surplus.

One week ago, his own department told us that, after six months, there was a surplus of $10 billion. Why such a discrepancy? The answer is one of two things: either this minister is incompetent, or he refuses to debate with his colleagues, the Minister of Health and the Minister of Human Resources Development, in order to decide what to do with the surplus. Which of these is the right answer?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member is mistaken.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[Paul Martin, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

I have always said we would be going to have a surplus this year. I said so in the economic statement. Moreover, Canadians need to be proud of this.

What I am still saying, and I would like to quote the senior economist at Mouvement Desjardins, is “The presence of numerous risks, both from the economic and the financial point of view, calls for continued caution”. That is our position.

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the chief economist for the Mouvement Desjardins predicted a $15 billion surplus by the end of the fiscal year, while this morning the Conference Board anticipated a surplus of $10 billion. These are the true figures.

For three years now, the Bloc Quebecois has accurately forecast the situation of our public finances. This year, the surplus will, in our estimation, reach $15 billion. We are proposing to allocate $7 billion to the employment insurance fund, $6 billion to health and $2 billion to tax reduction, for a total of $15 billion. This is our proposal.

What is this minister, who plays with numbers to hide the reality, proposing?