Madam Speaker, again it is a pleasure to speak on the very important topic of the well-being of small business in Canada.
I would like to say something very obliquely about the whole issue of closure. The government uses that technique in order to stop the debate. It wants to have the bill finished, in this case today, and it is at a loss to try to persuade us to pass the bill really fast. We want to discuss it and see whether we can persuade the government to make some amendments. This is very important to us. I believe that we represent the well-being of the taxpayers much more than does the government side. It is important for that point of view to be stressed.
We are talking about the government's inability or lack of desire to seriously consider our amendments. If the government would say that the amendment makes a lot of sense and that it would go along with it, that would be the end of the story. We would not have a long debate. It would not take a whole week of debate to come to a conclusion.
However, the government says “It is our way or the highway. We are the only ones who know perfectly how this should be done”. That is not an accurate assessment of the government's abilities. Undoubtedly the government has very capable members of parliament but their ability to represent their constituencies is severely hampered by the fact that they do not have the freedom to vote according to the wishes of their constituents, even on amendments to a bill. I cannot understand that. I want that to be changed.
This group of amendments has two very important components. One is Motion No. 6 put forward by one of my colleagues. This is an amendment which protects the people who earn the money, the taxpayers.
It has already been alluded to that some people and some small businesses are concerned because as taxpayers they have to pay their taxes both as individuals and as businesses. That money is taken by the government whether they want to give it or not. It is not a voluntary fund. It is not a charity.
It is not a case of somebody from the government or elsewhere coming to the people in the little towns which I represent and saying “There is a person in your town who wants to start a business and we would like to give them a little bit of help. They are just not quite solid enough to qualify for a loan from the bank, so we would like to give them your money. How much money would you like to give them?”
In the event that the person has a solid business plan, a good reputation in the community and is not seeking to undermine by direct competition a business which is already in that town, then perhaps the individual business person would say “Yes, having this business in my town is going to be helpful. I trust this person. I will give you a cheque for $500 to help”. That would be a voluntary way of collecting this money, but that is not how it works.
When the tax man comes, it is not a voluntary donation that we make. The tax man reaches into our pockets and takes our earnings, against our will in some cases. Certainly it is true in my part of the world that most Canadians whom I speak to are quite happy to pay a reasonable level of taxation. However, in this case, that money to be taken is to be given to another business person. We are taking money away from those who are successfully earning it and giving it to others in the hopes that they will also earn it, which is not entirely a bad premise.
However, statistics show that many of these small business people who get started have a much higher than average rate of default. I guess that is to be expected because not everyone's good dream will come to fruition. Some people unfortunately will not be able to put their dreams into action and things will not quite work out the way they wanted them to. That is why ordinary banks and lending institutions will not advance the money to them. Hence they come to the government, to the taxpayer.
The amendments we are proposing are reasonable. They are probably going to be rejected by the government. Instead of listening to reasoned debate, the government would rather call all its members on command to stand up and vote for time allocation so we cannot talk about it.
We will vote on these amendments and the government will say to vote against the amendments. All the individualized robots will stand up when their strings are pulled and say that they are against the amendments, without having heard the arguments, without having heard the reasoning. Meanwhile, it all comes to an end and the taxpayer gets to pick up the bill.
I am talking about these two amendments, the first of which says that the liability that the taxpayers should pick up should be restricted to 50% of the loan. This has two effects.
The first one is very important. When a loan is granted under this program, the bank or financial institution administering it on behalf of the government will be a little more careful. It is too easy right now to say “We will decline you. Go to the Small Business Loans Act people and they will give you the money”. The banks and other institutions basically cut their potential losses but they cut them at the expense of somebody else.
I have discovered over the years that people generally are much more careful with their own money than they are when they spend someone else's. This is the premise here. The administrators of the loan system are spending someone else's money. They say “Sure, we will pick up 85% of the responsibility if this person wants to start a business. We do not think it will work but it is tough to say no to someone. Let's just say yes. If they do not make it, we will pull it out of the taxpayers' pockets. We will pull it out of the pockets of those who are competing against this person. We will end up being covered. Spread out over all the taxpayers, it does not make that much difference”.
I appeal to the Liberal members, all the green Liberals over there. I am not permitted to point out to people that empty chairs in this House are green so I will not say that. I am making an appeal to the Liberal members to vote in favour of the amendment in order to protect the taxpayer. The taxpayer is footing the bill.
It is an added incentive on the part of the person granting the loan to say “We carry a full 50% of the responsibility and therefore we must be careful”. The second reason this is a good amendment is that it saves the taxpayers money. It saves the money of the person who has put a successful business together, is earning money and is paying taxes.
Hopefully by putting in measures like this one, we can look forward to that great and glorious day when we will actually have some tax cuts, some real tax cuts and not some phony declared cuts from the other side.
Madam Speaker, I would like to have another 10 minutes to speak on Motion No. 11. If you would seek unanimous consent, I would be quite willing to do that.