Debates of Nov. 24th, 1998

Balanced Budget Act

[Walt Lastewka, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, on September 9, 1998, Volvo Canada announced it would close its car assembly plant in Halifax on December 18, 1998. As a result of the closing, I understand that 223 jobs will be lost.

[An hon. member]

Didn't you work for GM once?

[Walt Lastewka, Liberal, St. Catharines, ON]

Yes, I did. I do know the automobile industry a little.

We are profoundly aware of the impact the plant closure will have on the Halifax area. As soon as the Minister of Industry learned of the plan to close the plant he wrote to Volvo to express the disappointment of the Government of Canada about the closure.

The mayor of Halifax, Mr. Walter Fitzgerald, created a task force on the future of the Volvo facility and workforce. The mandate of the task force is to market the facility and the workforce worldwide and to ensure that Volvo continues to tranship automobiles through the port of Halifax. The industry minister immediately accepted Mayor Fitzgerald's invitation for a federal presence on the task force by directing that an executive officer of ACOA, the Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency, become a member of the task force.

In addition the minister allocated resources within the Halifax office of Industry Canada and also in Ottawa to assist the task force. Industry Canada personnel have been asked to identify potential leads that would fit in with the mandate of the task force, to bring these leads to the attention of the task force and to assist in the development of these leads as much as possible. Several leads have already been identified which the task force is in the process of investigating, although it is too early to say how they will turn out.

We are all aware of the events of last month where workers of the plant took over the facility and picketed the plant. The workers took these actions out of fear for the future but also in an attempt to force Volvo to address some concerns that the workers have.

In closing, we remain acutely aware of the impact of the closing of the plant on the Halifax area and continue to urge all parties to work together to secure a long term future for the workforce and the facility.

[John Solomon, NDP, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

Mr. Speaker, I rise to follow up on a question to the minister of agriculture last Thursday.

I asked him very simply when the farmers in Saskatchewan and western Canada, and particularly the communities in my constituency like Craik, Tugaske, Nokomis and others, could expect him to announce some federal cash and assistance to help with the immediate net farm income disaster. The minister answered to the effect that he found the repeated demands of the NDP for such a program to be a bit of a nuisance, but that he was working on it.

Today his parliamentary secretary seemed to suggest during question period in reply to a question by my colleague the member for Palliser that cabinet had discussed the issue with the minister of agriculture and an announcement would be coming soon. I hope the parliamentary secretary this evening can give us more information on that issue.

Last Friday when I spoke at the Saskatchewan Wheat Pool convention, I heard from many wheat farmers who just could not see the light at the end of the tunnel. Then yesterday I received a letter from Mr. John Germs, the president of the Saskatchewan Pork Producers, who worried that some of his members were contemplating suicide because of the agricultural crisis.

As members of parliament, we often receive very strongly worded representations from constituents and lobby groups but I was really struck by this letter that arrived in my office. I want to quote from it:

Words cannot describe the catastrophic situation we as producers are facing. With the path continuing on this devastating course, I estimate 50% of the producers will be forced to exit the industry by spring—. The existing safety nets are not sufficient to carry us through this extreme low period. Many people have invested their life savings in this industry and now are watching it—week by week—quickly destroying their livelihood—. Hog producers in this province are desperate, many producers are suicidal, and live every day in fear of a foreclosure or local utilities disconnected.

Saskatchewan farm income, including that of wheat farmers and hog farmers, is projected to be negative next year for the first time since the depression of the 1930s. Hog prices may rebound for those who survive the year but the situation with wheat prices may not improve for quite some time unless the Europeans and Americans cut back on their market-distorting subsidies.

The current net farm income disaster, and I use that generally overused term advisedly, can be directly traced to the federal Liberal government's record at negotiating international trade agreements where it got suckered by Europe and the U.S. We recall that the government chopped the Crow benefit and other federal agriculture support programs. While Europeans who had 2.5 to three times the subsidies increased their agriculture subsidies, we eliminated all of ours.

Those farmers are growing more wheat in Europe and the United States and the price of wheat is dropping like a stone. Our farmers and our buyers are waiting until the price drops even more. But the bins are full and the U.S. is offering even more support to their farmers. It is crazy.

We need some emergency bridge funding to help especially the wheat farmers and the hog farmers in western Canada and the hog farmers in other parts of the country. We need a national disaster assistance program for all farmers to complement NISA.

I believe that if a forthcoming program was announced tonight or in very short order, the provinces might be willing to participate in this sort of emergency farm aid program financially.

I am calling on the government to recognize the failure in its cutting the Crow benefit which has cost Saskatchewan $320 million a year and to reinstate in the interim, while the European and U.S. subsidies are negotiated away, this particular farm aid for our farmers.

[Peter Adams, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, the Government of Canada is very concerned about the farm financial situation and realizes the sense of urgency and importance.

The hon. member is aware that the farm income situation was the subject of a special meeting the minister convened with provincial ministers of agriculture and farm leaders on November 4.

Since then the minister has had ongoing discussions with his colleagues in the government, in industry and provincial counterparts about the problems Canadian producers are facing. Work will continue with all stakeholders to put in place solutions to this situation.

We will act as quickly as possible but we will not act rashly, irresponsibly or prematurely. We will develop the necessary tools to improve the effectiveness of our safety net system as quickly as possible. However, all of us agree that inequitable, ineffective and unaffordable ad hoc measures are not the answer.

We will act quickly but we will also take the time necessary to ensure the actions taken are the best ones for farmers and for all Canadians.

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North Centre, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to have this opportunity to further discuss a matter I raised in the House on October 21, a matter we have repeatedly raised in the Chamber and which has been treated with indifference, rhetoric and callous disregard. The issue concerns the critical situation facing our health care system today.

Last week the Liberals defeated a motion in the House to reinvest $2 billion as a minimum in terms of cuts they have made to health care. During that debate the Liberals talked about how concerned they were about health care but refused to provide any specifics with respect to the critical situation. Every Liberal in that debate voted down a motion to shore up our health care system to a minimum of $2 billion.

Not only did the Liberals refuse to support that motion, they also in the course of that debate dismissed the very real concerns we keep bringing forward to them about the inadequacy of our health care system and the very real worries that people have about whether health care will be there when they need it.

The Liberals continue to deny the reality facing many Canadians. They try to suggest that these very real concerns are a figment of our imagination. The human situation speaks for itself. We only have to look at the health cuts especially in provinces like Manitoba and Ontario where we have a combination of federal and provincial cuts that has resulted in very real pain and hardship for people everywhere.

On October 21, I referred to the situation in Toronto of 17 out of 19 emergency rooms being closed down. I also referred to the situation in Ottawa where paramedics warned that the overload in hospitals was putting patients at risk. This past week in Manitoba we had nurses testifying that they were working 24 hour shifts and letting IV bags go dry because there is not enough nursing staff. Nurses are overworked, stressed out and suffering from complete burnout. They want to care for their patients but because of funding cuts they are facing very critical situations, with very serious emotional consequences for their patients.

We are here today to ask the government if it will listen to all the provinces that have asked for a minimum reinvestment of $2.5 billion. We are here to ask the Liberals if they are listening to every health care organization in the country demanding a minimum reinvestment of $2.5 billion.

We want to know specifically if the government will move to stabilize the system which is now in critical condition. Will the government assure us that it will not be entering into side deals with the provinces? Will it assure us that it will not be bypassing the Canada Health Act? Will it assure us that it will not be entering into unilateral arrangements that destroy the medicare model we have in Canada today?

Will it state clearly that it is prepared to stabilize the system? Will it raise the floor in terms of cash payments to a minimum of $15 billion? Will it embark on a new chapter of co-operation, prepared to work with the provinces, the stakeholders and Canadians everywhere who are deeply concerned about the quality of health care? Will this government stand up for medicare in no uncertain terms?

[Elinor Caplan, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, health care is clearly a priority of this government.

The very first thing this Liberal government did, once our fiscal house was in order, was to increase the cash floor in the Canada health and social transfer from $11 billion to $12.5 billion. This $1.5 billion increase marked the end of cuts and signalled the important priority this government places on medicare.

The Prime Minister has said clearly: “The government will invest more of our resources in the years ahead to reinforce our public health care”. In the government's recent economic statement the finance minister said that concerns related to strengthening medicare will be addressed.

Money matters but it must be said that the complex problems that confront health care in Canada will not be solved by dollars alone. The point is not simply to spend more but to spend more in a way that will produce a better result. The fundamental challenge Canada faces is to create a real system that is more responsible and more responsive to Canadians. Meeting that challenge will require focused action.

First, we need integrated health care delivery that meets the needs of people. Although strides are being made, we are still far from providing a seamless web of efficient and effective care, whether in terms of organizing services or providing public funding for them.

Second, a quality health care system is one that can be measured, where performance can be assessed, where all partners are accountable and have a responsibility to report to Canadians. A quality health care system would enable Canadians to determine if their health dollars are being wisely spent. Clearly whatever steps we take have to be in collaboration and in full partnership with the provinces. The size and method of the federal reinvestment are subject to discussions with the provinces.

Let us be clear. While money matters, improving the quality of health care means also ensuring confidence that when Canadians need care it will be there for them.

[Jean Dubé, Progressive Conservative, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Mr. Speaker, on November 5 of this year, I told the Minister of Human Resources Development that, according to the auditor general, there were some 311,000 valid social insurance numbers for persons over 100 years of age, even though most of these individuals were actually deceased.

I also said that fraud involving social insurance numbers was costing Canadian taxpayers millions of dollars. Yet, not one department is willing to take responsibility for SIN reform.

I then asked the minister whether he would take his responsibilities and act immediately. I think I have been rather generous. I gave the minister a perfect opportunity to redeem himself, more particularly after the lack of power he displayed in the urgent matter of social insurance numbers.

Unfortunately, the minister chose to answer that he had set up five working groups to examine the issue. We already knew that. What we would like to know is whether the minister is ready to take action and to correct the problem. I have a hard time understanding why the minister needs so much time to examine the problem when the auditor general has done all his work for him.

This brings me to another question: Why did the minister wait for the auditor general to examine the SIN problem before he himself took action?

I would like to remind the minister of certain facts showing the seriousness of the situation. There are currently 3.7 million social security numbers too many. Not 100, not 1,000, but 3.7 million. This is incredible!

There are 11.8 million social security numbers that have been attributed without proof of identity, 11.8 million!

In 1996, more than $500 million in social security and workers compensation payments were made to claimants who had not supplied their social security numbers.

With all these millions floating around the halls of HRDC we would think the minister would want to act quickly to solve these problems. Unfortunately neither the minister nor anyone in his government is willing to touch the issue.

I am not the one making these allegations. This comes from an article published in the Globe and Mail on November 4. The title reads: “Ottawa has no plans to deal with abuse of social insurance numbers. Auditor general identifies fraud, says dead people are still registered, but no one in government accepts responsibility for reforming the system”.

I return to my original question. The minister waited for the auditor general's report before looking at the social insurance number problem. His department still refuses to commit itself to reforming the SIN. In the meantime, millions of dollars of taxpayer money are going out fraudulently through illegal claims.

My is simple. When will the minister take charge, when will he show some leadership and sense of direction? When will he present to Canadians a clear outline and timetable for a complete reform of the social insurance number? What more will it take for the minister to act?

[Bonnie Brown, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Human Resources Development Canada shares the concerns of the auditor general with respect to the missing information on deaths in the social insurance register. He has already told the hon. member opposite that he is the lead minister, that he is in charge and that he has already established an interdepartmental working group for the purpose of assessing the accuracy and completeness of the personal information currently held in the register.

As suggested by the auditor general, the working group will try to determine how the department can use more fully the current sources of information at its disposal to update the register, sources such as the Canada pension plan, the old age security program and information from Revenue Canada.

In addition, the department hopes to investigate other sources of information such as provincial and territorial vital statistics, provincial health insurance information and Statistics Canada data.

We also hope to overcome any obstacles or stumbling blocks such as system problems which could prevent access to the information necessary to improve the integrity of the register.

I assure the hon. member that this government shares his concerns about any fraudulent use of social insurance numbers and we are taking action to address it.

Last year we investigated about 2,700 such cases and we intend to increase our investigations.

We are also taking a number of steps to improve our ability to prevent fraud. For example, we are improving our contract of service with the RCMP, which investigates the major cases of abuse and fraud, and we are creating a new investigations unit to improve our ability to prevent and detect fraud.

In addition, the parliamentary committee, of which the hon. member is a member, is investigating this phenomenon which the auditor general has uncovered.

The member can be assured the government will do whatever is necessary to ensure the accuracy and completeness of information within the social insurance register and to ensure the integrity of the social insurance number.

[The Deputy Speaker]

The motion to adjourn the House is now deemed to have been adopted. Accordingly, this House stands ajourned until tomorrow at 2 p.m., pursuant to Standing Order 24(1).

(The House adjourned at 7.07 p.m.)