Debates of Nov. 24th, 1998

Apec Inquiry

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, we will know as soon as the commission looks into the matter. That is why there is a commission. It has been set by this parliament. The members have been named for five years. They have the mandate to look into this matter. There was a complaint filed with them. They are doing exactly what the Parliament of Canada has asked them to do.

I want everybody to wait for the commission to give us its report. I want the commission to ask all the questions of anybody who it wants to interview.

[Preston Manning, Reform, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, the public complaints commission is not going to get to the bottom or to the top of this particular matter.

Remarks of the former solicitor general have undermined the commission. The chair of the commission is under investigation. Lawyers for the students want the commission quashed, as do lawyers for the RCMP who are being paid by the government.

Question period may be our only avenue to get to the bottom or to the top of this matter. I ask again, for whom was Staff Sergeant Stewart supposed to take the fall?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. Leader of the Opposition will have the answer from the commission.

[Preston Manning, Reform, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister is running away from this question. He is trying to hide exactly like the solicitor general.

Staff Sergeant Hugh Stewart, a senior Mountie, is being set up as a fall guy. This is confirmed in at least two affidavits filed with the commission. It has never been contradicted by anyone in the government.

I ask again, for whom was Staff Sergeant Stewart going to take the fall? Was it Eddie Goldenberg? Was it Peter Donolo? Was it Mr. Pelletier? Or was it the Prime Minister himself?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the officer himself said this morning that his one hope is to be in front of the commission and to give exactly all the facts of the problems when he was there.

Let the officer go in front of the commission to explain what happened. This is exactly what we want. It is exactly what the law of parliament asks the board to look into. As quickly as possible we will have satisfaction.

[Deborah Grey, Reform, Edmonton North, AB]

Mr. Speaker, it is the Prime Minister that we want investigated. An independent judicial inquiry—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

I would ask all of you, my colleagues, to be very judicious in your choice of words.

[Deborah Grey, Reform, Edmonton North, AB]

It looks like we hit a weak spot. Mr. Speaker, a judicial inquiry can investigate the Prime Minister. The public complaints commission cannot. An independent judicial inquiry can get to the bottom of the Prime Minister's involvement in this. The public complaints commission cannot. An independent judicial inquiry can force the Prime Minister to produce documents. The public complaints commission cannot.

Will the Prime Minister please stand up and admit that these are the real reasons he does not want to have an independent inquiry?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the commission that exists has been making inquiries with everybody in the government and it was given all the documents that it asked for. There is absolutely nothing to hide. We want the commission to look at every document it wants as soon as possible and we will have the results of the inquiry.

I know that the opposition has nothing else to complain about. Keep asking these questions and you will still have the same answers. Let the law of the land apply in this case.

[Deborah Grey, Reform, Edmonton North, AB]

Mr. Speaker, that answer is exactly the answer that the former solicitor general gave every day and we know what happened to him.

The Prime Minister knows that if he is subpoenaed to go to the public complaints commission, he can refuse to answer any question that he just does not want to answer. That is different than a court, a judicial inquiry where a judge can order the Prime Minister to tell the truth.

If the Prime Minister really has nothing to hide like he just said, why does he not call a real inquiry headed up by a real judge? What is he so afraid of?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, a commission and inquiry can be set up and not have a judge. There have been inquiries by people who were not judges. This commission has the right to ask any question of any witness it wants.

I said yesterday what my involvement was in that and the long answer was none. I cannot add more than that. I had a job to do that day. I had to preside over a meeting and that was my preoccupation. I have absolutely nothing to hide. I want the Canadian public to have the whole answer as soon as possible.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, now that the solicitor general has resigned, we have to move on to the real problems.

All observers agree that the main point of the whole affair is the present commission of inquiry into the events at the APEC summit.

Does the Prime Minister realize that the present inquiry is as discredited as the former solicitor general was, and that if the Prime Minister really wants to clean up his image, it is his duty to put into place an independent commission of inquiry?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, that is what we have: a commission of inquiry under the authority of an act of Parliament.

A complaint was lodged. I could not even ask them to stop. They are totally independent. It is their duty to do what is dictated by a law of this Parliament, and they want to do their work. They are resuming hearings tomorrow.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, what needs to be clarified is not just the actions taken by the RCMP, but also the actions and orders of the Prime Minister's entourage, and of the Prime Minister himself.

Yesterday the Prime Minister told us he did not want to start back at square one. But is the real danger not going back to square one, but ending up there?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the real problem is that the opposition refuses to recognize the truth.

The opposition does not want the commission to do its job, because they know very well that, when the commission has finished its work, they will have nothing to say, because the police did a good job. If not, the commission will report on this.

We have told them that all of the documents they want to look at, and all of the people they want to hear in Parliament, are available to them. They can interview them all and get them to testify if they want.

[Richard Marceau, Bloc, Charlesbourg, QC]

Mr. Speaker, what concerns us in the APEC affair is not only the problem of the police, it is primarily the problem of the Prime Minister.

Does the Prime Minister not understand that the RCMP public complaints commission is far too narrow a context for what needs to be investigated, because at issue, in addition to the role of the RCMP, is the role of the Prime Minister's office and of the Prime Minister himself?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, this is exactly what we have been saying since the start. We have told them they can ask anyone in my office to testify.

This is why Mr. Pelletier and Mr. Carle have offered to testify, and anyone the commission wants to send for will testify. So what is their complaint? We have offered to provide all the documents and to let them interview or send for anyone from the public service or from my office.

[Richard Marceau, Bloc, Charlesbourg, QC]

Mr. Speaker, what the Prime Minister does not understand is that we do not want to know who pepper-sprayed the demonstrators, but who issued the order to do so and where it came from.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I am not worried. I did not give it. I have said that in the House and I repeat it. The commission will look at the work of the police and whether or not they acted properly. Yesterday, the officer in question said he was keen to testify, because it was about time his version of the matter was heard.

Farm Income

[Dick Proctor, NDP, Palliser, SK]

Mr. Speaker, my question is also for the Prime Minister.

I am sure the Prime Minister would agree that we are facing a growing crisis in this country. I refer of course to the farm income crisis. We have been saying this for months. So have farmers and the farm media. Even Canada's so-called national newspaper says that half of the grain farmers on the prairies are now on the brink.

Will Canadian farmers have to face this crisis on their own or is this government going to provide some help now?

[Joe McGuire, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member is a member of the Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-Food. That committee is holding hearings on farm income which will be given to the minister. He knows the minister held a national meeting with farm organizations on November 12. He knows that the deputy ministers of agriculture have been meeting with their counterparts in the provinces. The advisory committee on farm income safety nets has reported to the minister as he requested before the end of November. Progress is being made. The minister has talked to his cabinet colleagues. Within a short period of time, an announcement will be forthcoming.

[Dick Proctor, NDP, Palliser, SK]

Mr. Speaker, as we know, this Prime Minister rarely admits anything without first being backed into a corner. After much prodding, the government now agrees that farmers are in dire straits.

When an ice storm hit Ontario and Quebec, the government helped out. When the Red River flooded, the government helped out. Now western Canadians are facing disaster. When will the Prime Minister step up to the plate and announce a disaster relief plan?

[Joe McGuire, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

Mr. Speaker, as I stated in my first answer, everything that can be done is being done to address the farm income crisis.

The minister and the government know there is a crisis. They are well aware of what is happening in the farming communities, especially in hogs and grains. In due course, a program will be announced.

Veterans Affairs

[Elsie Wayne, Progressive Conservative, Saint John, NB]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Veterans Affairs has stated that he considers the hunger strike by the merchant navy men to be a disgrace and a blackmail of the Canadian government. This has hurt those merchant navy men terribly.

I know we all make statements that we wish we had not made. In this case, I would ask that the minister retract his comments and that he sit down with these brave men to discuss their concerns very soon.