Madam Speaker, I find it rather hypocritical and want to read for the sake of the record some of the comments which Liberals made with respect to the matter of closure while they were in opposition.
I cite for the record today the now Liberal Minister of Foreign Affairs who was reported in the Toronto Star as saying on April 1, 1993 “It displays the utter disdain with which this government treats the Canadian people”.
I quote from Hansard of November 16, 1992 when the now Liberal government House leader said “I am shocked. This is just terrible. This time we are talking about a major piece of legislation. Shame on those Tories across the way”.
That is what was said by Liberals and today we have closure on this bill.
The hon. member for Kingston and the Islands, who is now the Deputy Speaker, said “What we have here is an absolute scandal in terms of the government's unwillingness to listen to the representatives of the people in this House. Never before have we had governments so reluctant to engage in public discussion on the bills brought before this House”. How appropriate that is for this occasion today.
As well, the same individual who is now the Deputy Speaker said “I suggest that the government's approach to legislating is frankly a disgrace. It cuts back the time the House is available to sit and then applies closure to cut off the debate”.
Lastly, that same member from Kingston and the Islands said “This is not the way to run Parliament. This is an abuse of the process of the House”. That is exactly what is now being done by the Liberal government this afternoon.
I was hoping that as a result of an amended Bill C-4 we would have a viable, modern, democratized Canadian Wheat Board which would allow some market choice, some voices of moderation and a reasonable position.
Instead in cynical fashion the Liberal government has, by its bill, not respected the farmers as mature adults able to make wise choices. They can make choices for themselves. It is not like they are little kids and we need to do it for them because they are not wise enough to do it for themselves.
This legislation will not bring about that voluntary participation in the Canadian Wheat Board. Farmers will not have that freedom to choose, to exercise their mature adult will. This bill, as the minister knows, gives farmers no options of that sort.
Thousands of grain farmers have told the government what they are asking for and what they want. They want that choice. They want the choice of marketing for themselves. It is not that others would have to, but it is only if they wished to do this they could do so. Bill C-4 simply ignores those farmers. It is a feeble attempt by this Liberal government to appear as though it is responding to farmers' demands for change. It is a kind of charade, but it has dodged the real issue of marketing options for farmers.
The minister attempts to placate producers with this legislation but they are not fooled. It will backfire. The Canadian Wheat Board's tight grip on the sale of wheat and barley has an extremely divisive effect back in the constituencies in the west among Canadian farmers. A much better approach could have been taken by the minister responsible for the wheat board.
It is not a controversy that will simply go away. All farmers are getting more and more frustrated because the minister will not deal with the situation. The minister has taken an all or nothing attitude instead of paving the way for farmers to choose how to sell their grain.
The inclusion clauses in the bill leave no room for compromise. It is unbending and a cruel joke. This means that a grain is either in or out. Far from preserving the Canadian Wheat Board, it ultimately will destroy it as one producer group after another chooses to get out from under its thumb.
The government has ignored recommendations from its own Western Grain Marketing Panel. We heard some selective quotes from the member opposite about some of the things the government did follow in some fashion but not citing those where it did not.
In July 1996 after a year long study the panel told the government that the board's monopoly on the sale of wheat should be reduced and that its monopoly on the export of feed barley should end. That was one of the recommendations of the panel which was not cited by the hon. member opposite.
With that all or nothing kind of display, the plebiscite that the minister then fixed or rigged earlier this year permitting barley growers gave them little choice. The question was did they want to go or stay with the wheat board and nothing in between. What kind of choice is that when there could have been other options and a fairer way to word the question?
Farmers are more frustrated than ever. That barley vote was not unlike the referendum in Quebec where they determined the outcome by the wording of the question. Farmers were fully aware at the very outset, from the wording of the question, what the determination would be.
The election of 10 members to the board has been referred to often here. That is not enough. A fully elected board of directors is mandatory if the voice of farmers is truly to be heard. This hybrid kind of board will be, as we have said before in a speech in the Hansard record, like the offspring of a donkey and a horse, a mule. It will be unproductive.
For example as has been cited, if just three directors shift their vote to align with the five government appointed members, the majority of farmer elected directors would find themselves outvoted. That my friends is not a wise choice. It is not a choice for farmers across our country.
The ability of those elected directors to represent the farmers who elected them is also in doubt. Just like CSIS, Canada's secretive spy agency, the Canadian Wheat Board does not have to answer to the Access to Information Act.
I found it interesting to hear the member for Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar citing these studies in terms of all the benefits and all the extra dollars accrued to farmers by way of the Canadian Wheat Board operations. I am not sure where these studies all come from in that we do not have access to information. Even 30 years afterward, why would anyone need to withhold that information from us if there is nothing to hide? We do not presently have a need to have the wheat board audited by the auditor general. How can those directors act freely if they are bound by some oath of secrecy?
I agree with the Bloc member's motion. It is a good one. Motion No. 46 under this Group No. 7 would bring the wheat board under the jurisdiction of the Access to Information Act which is good for farmers.
I am also concerned that the directors could be denied liability protection if they were to speak and act freely on behalf of farmers, which is what one would think the wheat board is all about and what it should be doing.
Directors would only be covered it would seem for liability if they act in the best interest of the corporation. Any instructions given to the Canadian Wheat Board by the federal government are defined as the best interest of the corporation. If a director does not follow government directives, then they may well be liable because they are not looking out for the interest of the corporation. The mandate of the wheat board should be to look out for the best interests of farmers.
The government as we know has also neglected to tackle the Canadian Wheat Board's role in grain transportation in this bill. There is an impending crisis in the system of grain transportation and the Liberals are either unwilling or unprepared to do anything about it. This is the very best as it stands before us now unamended that the Liberals could come up with.
There are approximately 110,000 grain farmers in the prairie provinces and part of British Columbia and the Canadian Wheat Board controls $5 billion in sales. Given the significance of those numbers it is hard to believe that the government has simply introduced this recycled legislation. I am for recycling but not in this regard. We need some reformed legislation.
Almost 100 witnesses stood before that agriculture committee to comment on the predecessor, Bill C-72. Virtually all of the farm groups appearing told the committee that it was a fundamentally flawed piece of legislation. We need reformed legislation.
In the report stage of this bill the Liberals rammed it through committee in less than two weeks despite overwhelming objections by producer groups. Witnesses were forced to present views in a confusing round table format, providing MPs with little opportunity to analyse thoroughly the legislation.
The presence of Reform MPs through the course of this debate has really been quite tremendous. The Liberals were for the most part conspicuous by their absence, at times not even present in the House.
The wheat board minister obviously found little support in that Regina meeting and was booed off the stage.
Grain producer groups opposed to Bill C-4, the coalition against Bill C-4, have continued to press the minister to take the opposition amendments seriously. Numbers of coalitions listed on numerous occasions over these last days oppose this bill.
On January 21, and this is the case which was referred to before, the minister discussed in a fairly contemptuous fashion the matter of directors when in fact this has not yet been passed. This shows a disregard for Parliament and really in my view a contempt of Parliament. A number of those groups invited to that Regina meeting walked out protesting the meeting. Again that is a very graphic testimony to the fact that this Bill C-4 is a fundamentally flawed piece of legislation.
In closing, I would say the farmers I have talked to, although not all agree, do want reformed legislation of the sort that includes the amendments that the Reform Party has put forward. Regrettably this bill instead of being known as the act to amend the Canadian Wheat Board may tragically in history go down as the act to end the Canadian Wheat Board. That will be a sad day.